Ht Noob

Discussion in 'Home Audio Talk' started by Poseur, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    Okay kids, so here's the deal. I've recently started working full time at the local stereoshop that for the past year, I've been intermittantly helping out at (mostly with installs) primarily on the 12v side of things. At anyrate, I've started Dabbling in HT, and really getting into it all. Nowthen, here's where my questioning begins, and I realize that aswith everything audip it's all subjective, etc but I DO value many of your opinions and I've really not got the experience, or time to be able to research and decide entirely on my own, so I'm hoping fora bit of help. My boss's a total audiophile, but he's also been on the retail side of it for 25years, so his opinions while valid, etc definately seem to me to be more than a bit colored.

    Mostly, at this point I'm trying to decide on receivers. Here's what I'm factoring in at the moment. Our shop mostly deals with onkyo/integra and Denon so obviously I can get in on deals with either of them. fosgate is also in the possibilities as we deal alot of Quart speakers, but in a way I also like to know what I sell as well. Brand-wise my leanings are towards denon eventhough the beefiness of integra's powersupply and their awesome remotes aren't without their appeal. IF there's world better out there as well that would be within a fairly limited budget, please by all means let me know.

    My other hangup is wether or not I should just get a good stereo reciever, or jump in for a multichannel style a/v setup while my discount's good and fresh. I realize that apart from the money issue, that an a/v reciever won't ultimately be as good for audio as a stereo setup if for nothing else than the fact that There won't be as much 2ch power on tap. But is it a huge difference? I don't intend to be doing a full HT setup for awhile, but I've been getting fedup with my lame Aiwa at home long enough, and it's beyond time to move on. Immediately I'll be buying a set of (likely klipsh) bookshelf speakers and a reciever, and I'd like to build up a floorstanding adire kit setup fairly soon.

    I guess, essentially I need a bit of generic noob home audio advice. I'm fairly well-versed in the 12v world, but y'kno we all growup sometime...
  2. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    I'll take Denon over Onkyo anyday. Onkyo units have amazing feature sets, but with regaurds to sound, I hate them. They always tend to be very bright.

    I like the Denon 2800 series or better. The 1800 units lose so much compared to the 2800s for the price differance that I would save a few bucks and wait a bit if nessicary.

    Klipsh are nice units, all in all, but for bookshelves I like the KIT81 or KIT51 better for the dollar. The image of the 51s is just stunning, and a pair for under $200? How can you beat them?

    You want cheap? Avoid seperates. Most will not really hear too much differance, but if you plan on it down the road, by all means, go for it. There IS a differance, I woln't bullshit you on that, but you need to consider what money you do have to spend, and keep in mind, when you do go for seperates you don't want the cheapest. Another nice thing, the 2800 and better Denons offer 7.1 preouts, so you can use it as a pre-amp to drive seperates when you get ready to take that leap.

    Hope I covered everything.
  3. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    Cool man,thanks... As an explanation for the klipsh setup, mostly it's what we sell, we've got plenty onhand so I can EP a air, and grab some off the shelf and have them right now, Plus there's the adility to tell customers that's what you run, etc... I'll definately be building some kit setups eventally, but at the moment, between my 2jobs, I'm working about 14hrs a day 6 days a week, so build-time is limited. After christmas that'll lax a bit, but then my school starts up and I'm inthe same boat. *ugh* eventually sometime I'll manage it...

    Question still though Is it worth it to even bother looking at a stereo reciever? I'm thinking I can immediately get more bang for the buck with one, but if I'm gonna be just as good stereo-wise with a 7ch setup, and still have the ability to do surround in the future, all the better. I guess I'm really looking at AV setups right now, and likely atleast upper-mid level as I don't want to be replacing things, but snapping up a nice stereo unit appeals to the pocket book at themoment as well.

    Also I noticed after I posted that there was nothing new inhere, is there a new HT site up where there's more activity?
  4. DerrikW

    DerrikW Full Member

    Deciding on going 2 channel or multi-channel really depends on what you would use the system most for. Mostly Music or mostly HT? I may lose ya here but, I would look for the warmest sounding receiver as possible if you are going with klipsch's. Them horns can get awful bright, and pairing them with a bright receiver, such as a yamaha, is not a good idea. The highs can become unbearable at times. On the good side, klipsch's are very efficient. They take less power than your average speakers to get loud. Seth mentioned that onkyo's are bright. I'm not sure cuz I've never really demoed one, played with a couple a little bit, but never any serious demoing. If they are, avoid them, a bright receiver and bright speakers, can sound very harsh.

    Now lets talk power. I'm not real sure about onkyo or integra. Denon however, their older models have been know to be on the short side of power, well everything under the 3xxx series anyway. If I remember correctly the 2805 puts out around 80/ channel, all channels driven, and the 3805 puts around 110 or so/channel, all channels driven.

    If you can get a hold of pioneer, I would definatley take a look at the vsx-1014tx. Exact same receiver as a pioneer elite vsx-52tx. Exact same right down to the parts manual. Just a different face and only a 1 year warrant compared to a 2.
    If you can't get from your shop, you can find them online for about $450. Home theater mag tested it at 115/channel. all channels driven. Auto mcacc. PLIIx. Dts-es, dolby digital ex. Component up conversion. For the price you aren't gonna touch it, feature and power wise. That maybe out of you price range though, since you didn't tell us how much you're looking to spend. And in my opinion, the pioneer would mate better with klipsch's because they have a little warmer sound to em.

    The amound of power you need though, depends on how big of a room you supplying sound to. the klipsch's definately help cuz they are so efficient.

    You're best bet is to demo the speakers you want, and a couple different receivers you are looking at and see what you like. What sounds good to others, may sound like shit to you. and vice versa.

    If I confused you in anyway, let me know and I will try to explain it a little better, I kinda through in some words that might confuse some people.
  5. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    Nah, not confused at all, andwhile I fully understand, the lipsh speaker bit is verymuch a temporary thing, or ifnot, they'll be my "zone Bers" Prettymuch I can get a sweet deal onthem, of what we've got, apart from a bit of that brightness (I'm a BIG silk dome tweet fan usually, so believe me it's odd for me to like the sound)

    Essentially, room and speaker-wise things are a changin' I'm soon to be a student again, so I'm not planning on the most extravagent of lifestyles, ALso I do intend to buildup something like a 281kit, but it may change with teh new extremis out, really i'm gonna try to audition some eitherway... so I'll have a differnet speaker setup, but I've got an oppertunity rightnow that I'd kind of like to capitolize on. I do realise it's a vague kinda arrangement, and whatnot, but I'm just sorta looking for any form of input. And yes that does help a good bit.

    as far as which way to go, I'm mostly music, and likely will always be, but in the future HT could verywell be worth my while. I'm beginning to realize, though that surround sound compliance might require something else by the time I get around to that, and I'll likely have the money to handle it right at that point anyway. SO stereo reciever's more and more likely.
  6. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    Something of note, Most multi channel recievers havelistings for Stereo and multi channel (all channels driven) specifications. Typically multi channel units will drop output for all channels driven mode to reduce power supply issues, but stereo will be full bore. For example, looking at many units you will see 100 watts stereo, 80 watts all channels driven. So don't be overly concerned with drop in ACD mode. Not to mention, with the efficiency of Klipsh you woln't be needing to worry too much about that.

    I still think a nice multi-channel would be better, as you may want to look into some nice DVD-A/SACD formats. Pioneer has some super nice, super cheap (under $100) DVD players capable of DVD-A and SACD formats, to which I will link you if interested.

    And If I am not too mistaken, Derrik, the Elites and Pios may have the same specs, but the Elites use differant amps and processor chipsets, and I know they use nicer power supplies.
  7. DerrikW

    DerrikW Full Member

    Yes you are right Seth. The pios and elites do have the same specs, but the elites will absolutely slaughter anything from the regular line. Better processors, power supplies, amps, everything is better. The only exception being the vsx-1014tx and the vsx-52tx, which are the same receiver, been verified by more than one pioneer rep.

    I also agree on going with the multichannel receiver right off the bat, saving yourself some money in the long run. Like Seth said, most receivers will do rated power in stereo, only a few will actually do rated all channels driven, elite, HK, NAD, Rotel, and a few marants's, a couple denons will too. Some of the better multi-channel receivers that do awesome in stereo are, elites, rotel, and especially NAD. In all seriousness, if stereo is the most important feature, I'd say find a NAD dealer near you. From what I've read and hear, NAD is hard to beat stereo wise.

    Like mentioned, running stereo with klipsch speakers isn't usually much of a problem, considering the efficiency of the things.

    I have a pioneer 656 dvd player, plays mp3's, dvd audio, all of the features you could possibly want. With the exception of dvi of course. I paid $216 authorized. My pioneer elite 54tx should be hear next week some time.
  8. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    I looked for the VSX1014 (TX) and never found it... is it a 2005 model? I was interested because the Elites offer 7.1, and all Pios offered 6.1. I was thinking of picking something up for the bedroom, and I thought if I could get a good deal on something like that... <_< Anyways, drop a link. I love my Elite, and if I could get close to it for in the bedroom for less, I'm all over it.
  9. DerrikW

    DerrikW Full Member,00.html

    For some reason pioneer pulled it from there website, nobody can figure out why. The weight on the website is wrong, it is actually 34 pounds.

    I know you love your 45tx, so check this out.*3840*

    It is a rebadged 45tx. Go ahead check the specs, look at the front panel and compare it to your 45tx. If you wish you can go to pioneers website and download the service manuals, exact same thing. If you go to bestbuys website they have a vsx-2012. The 45tx, 1012, and the 2012 are all the same units. However best buy is charging 599 or 699 for the 2012, not sure. But they are indeed the same units. I have heard of more than a couple pioneer reps confirming this also. Of course they don't have the urushi finish or the two year warranty of the elite, but for $399 for 45tx, pretty damn hard to beat.

    You can go ahead and read this for some more info.

    There is a guy on there by the name of stephen hopkins, you can trust what he says, he has done more homework on pioneer than the rest of us put together.

    If you need to know anything else just ask. I'll be more than happy to dig up the info.
  10. DerrikW

    DerrikW Full Member

    My bad, best buy has the 1012, not the 2012. For some reason I can't edit anything.
  11. DerrikW

    DerrikW Full Member

    Damnit. Michael if you see this I can't edit anything. I keep getting a damn you do not have permission to edit this message error.

    Anywho. Best buy has the 1014 for $499. There are a couple online dealerships that are authorized that sell them for usually between $450-$500. Of course you can get one un-authorized for about $375 online.

    Some of the differences between a 1012 and a 1014 are

    1. 1014 does component up conversion, the 1012 does not.
    2. The 1014 has PLIIx, the 1012 does not.
    3. the 1012 has a usb port, the 1014 does not.
    4. the 1012 has dual processors compared to the 1014's single.

    Here is another link that will go a little more in depth.