Gun Control lets get fired up here

Discussion in 'Off Topic Discussion' started by The_Ancient, Mar 8, 2002.

  1. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    do you think CRACk is hard for people to get or any other illegal item???????


    Notta Really



    More expensize yes they will be

    and Thomas Jefferson explaines the reason I dont want to give of the right to keep assult rifles best

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
    -Thomas Jefferson

    and then he said
    That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
    -Thomas Jefferson


    as for you being distrubed, I am not going to get enraged and start shoot randamly at people, I am not nuts, like I have said many many time I respect life,

    you are twisting or misunderstanding my words
     
  2. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    I was using that as an example, not saying you would or anything. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

    how much easier and cheaper would it be if crack were on the shelf at your local CVS?

    Were their fully automatic rifles in jeffersons days?

    unfortunately, we as a society have grown lazy, careless and disrespectful. We have tossed aside traditional values of others and embraced a selfish lifestyle. An ungoverned society provides little protection. That is why our government was created.

    Thankfully, the authors of the consitution of the US foresaw change, and provided for the ability of our laws to change accordingly. We, as a nation need to realize this. Unfortunately, too many people use the laws as a sheild. We need to realize where problems lie in our society, how to correct them, and how to learn from them as well. Let's stop defending a criminals right to bear arms. They are a society of people who create chaos and they need to be governed. We as lawfull citizens need to realise that we need to give up some rights, or allow them to be altered in this case, in order to be safe. I feel if someone shoots another in any way except self defence, should be shot on the spot. An Eye for an eye. We have grown soft on criminals, and provided them with the rights that they took from others. Todays prisons are overcrowded and the criminals inhabbiting them are treated better than a family man who has lost his job.

    I had a friend who went away. When he got out he said, It's like a country club in there, I'm going back. And he did. If he had visited onto him the losses that he visited on others, he may have thought differently.
     
  3. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    I argee with EVERYTHING you said except of giving up my freedoms, I would just assume be dead than to lose my freedoms

    People have died to defend those freedoms you just want to give away

    I think that if you reform the Justice sytem to where is WORKS then that is the OLNY solution to the Promlems today not taking away the freedoms of law abiding citizens

    I am all for the Death penlity but I would nto agree to being shot on the spot do to the high number of wrongful convictions the occur today,


    I think , like you, if people feared punishment they would not commit the crimes, but no one really fears punishment and THAT IS THE TRUE problem
     
  4. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    I would be willing to die if it would prevent 1 person from killing another because he is afraid he may suffer my fate. I would be willing to die to defend the rights of which you speak. I am also willing to give up the right to bear assault weapons to make the street a better place.
     
  5. toid

    toid Full Member

    38...good to hear where your heart is. I was also a correctional officer for 5 years. It does my heart good to hear about someone who has straightened out. I met a few good men in there, but for the most part...I don't need to explain, do I?

    the problem is simply this.
    Freedoms are good and are the foundation of ...well...a free nation.
    the guideline that we base our freedoms upon was created when the actions/activities of the average man were based on a hope and belief of a better future for posterity. Today the general attitude is different. Socially, we are all about instant gratification, self serving, fuck everybody else...I want mine regardless of the impact, FUCK TOMORROW, FUCK THE FUTURE, FUCK POSTERITY just gimme MINE...Like ot or not this is the problem with the abuse of rights, the inability of the Justice system to control things...etc.. This mentality is pervasive. The culture in our country is emersed in it and future generations can't really be protected against it...speaking in a generalized tone...This IS where we're going. It will take a MASSIVE social shock to turn this around. I'm not sure if we, as a nation, could negotiate such an obsticle. We have made our own bed, so to speak.
    We have these rights. they were given to us in another time when the general social attitude was diametrically opposed to what we have now. the basis of our whole system was that we have these rights to use freely as long sd it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others...but that line has become fuzzy...indeed almost nonexistant.
    He who has the dollar is inevitably Right...when you start trying to differentiate where this line actually is. He who has the special interest vote is Right.
     
  6. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    Thanks to DNA testing we will see a reduction in false imprisionment.
     
  7. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    Very well said. Pay attention to this man everybody, he stated in a few lines what I've been trying to state in 3 pgs of posts.
     
  8. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    Well I know of atleast one case that the person was covicted soley on DNA and was later determin innocent,

    I can nbot rember the case for the life of me though

    DNA is not 100% and it can be planted to cover up the true killer

    Now I do agree that it will drop the number of false inprisonmetns this is true, but we will still have the need for atleat 1-2 appels
     
  9. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    I agree that it is still not 100%, due to evidence planting. But again:

    I would be willing to die if it would prevent 1 person from killing another because he is afraid he may suffer my fate.

    Even if I was wrongfully accused. It may save someone in my families life.
     
  10. toid

    toid Full Member

    Even a fool can see what is right in front of him. I feel impotent...because I see the problem, as would ANYONE who is willing to recieve the truth, but I honestly...and damn regretably...feel there is no soultion.
    Karl Marx said (forgive the innacutacy of this quote) Capitalism will evolve into Socialism. Socialism will eventually evolve into Communism. Communism will inevitably revolve (as in revolution) to assume a capitalist government. Marxist theory...as sound a philosophy as anything Darwin ever wrote...indeed they are linked.
    We have withstood this on the grounds of pure unadulterated stubbornness, at times at the cost of our humanity. Who, of moral fiber, can honestly stand and say no to free health care? Old people are dying by the thousands...the millions simply because they can't afford the medical necessities of life. Children, indigent cancer and HIV patients...Socialism would take care of this....at a cost. Just an example. But the cost is our freedom. Some freedoms are viewed by many as petty (bearing arms for example...EASY guys, not my idea, just an example) but how valuable are rights when you're cold and dying in a gutter from a easily treatable (in many cases) condition? We won't change for the better, because we are unwilling to pay the price. We say were instituting reform here or there, but we're only borrowing from Bob to pay Billy. Issues aren't being solved, the underpriviliged and/or the unrepresented are still dying and suffering (needlessly?), and it is NOT going to change, because we WON't...Nay, we CAN'T change.
    this is an emotional subject and I'm unashamed to admit that it is with tears welling that I will admit this...I'd STILL lay down my life for my country... the oath I swore was for life as far as I'm concerned...for better or worse. A man has to stand up for something. this WAS created (at least) a country "Under God" I have to believe that, because otherwise, there is no hope.
     
  11. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    here are some fact I pulled up

    fo more go to http://www.guncite.com/ great site
     
  12. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    That is moving. The reality of the situation is that pure communism represents perfect government. Wait a minute here, don't bash me yet. The true Marxist theory revolves around everyone gets an = share of everything. That would eliminate the need for currency, thus eliminating cost concerns for everyone. A society of one, so to speak. Everybody working to help others and share equaly Unfortunately we as people are not capable of this. We are looking for a better life than joe next door. We are to proud and greedy to allow this to happen. I, too am guilty of this, as are we all. It is human nature. This makes it nessicary to create a government. And as we have stated before, governments are made up of people. People are greedy, and the circle continues. I embrace the Nation we live in. I am proud to live here. I only wish that we could all be one. However, i also wish I can have more than joe, next door. A sad tribute to humanity, isn't it?
     
  13. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    but you see michael. We were all law abiding people once. We realise that punishment is a joke, and we take it further. It's like studies that say first, most try alcohol, then pot, than onto harder drugs. All this is usually preceded by cigarettes. Well, no shit! We all at one point never tried any of these things. We started small and grew comfortable with the consequences each provided us. we have a cig and get a headrush, no big deal. We get drunk and get a hangover, that sucks, but still; no big deal. We hear weed has no hangover. We burn one and all we do is burn out. Cool!!! let's try coke, heroin, etc. Eventually we are too deep to get out and we're fucked. This all circles around the punishments we recieve for each act. Sad but true.
     
  14. toid

    toid Full Member

    That is the hope and promise of our system, though. To prosper as much as you are willint to work for.
    It is a sad truth that we have realized this dream...But we have done so at such a price... While SOME have prospered, others have had to suffer to afford the elite's prosperity.
    Utopia would be perfect if there were no people to fuck it up.
    Communism : the state of communing with one another on an equal level...If you remove the demonization we've placed on the word it ain't bad. But Human nature won't allow it. We are little more than socially adept and advanced predators. Our behavioral charactistics, as a species, leave us with little but what we have.
    If you're of a Bible worshipping religion, you shoulda seen it coming...but it's easier to hope for a better life than a better after-life, huh?
     
  15. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    Well I started with Weed then Alchol I have never smoked Cig's Never will nor will I do any other drug the the 2 I have already done

    I see not Problems with weed I dont see many problems with alchol but that is another subject, and I dont do either heavaly, I have not had any drug in my other than caffine for over a year, (including alchol) but I am addicted to caffine in every sense of the word, I have to have caffnie or I get massive head aches
     
  16. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    I was just using that as an example of how people will state the outcome of a chain of events without looking at the individual events that led to the outcome. Thet point out the what, but never the why. I was just poining out a series of events that I am fimiliar with. I too didn't follow that path. I started drinking by 10, at 10 I took acid, at 12 I was smoking pot and cigarettes.At 13 I began snorting coke and by 15 was freebasing. I smoked crack for years, switching to smoking meth when coke was short. I tried everything you could think of, and then some I'm sure. I was the life of the party.I started breathing before I started smoking, you know.
     
  17. spyder3634

    spyder3634 Full Member

    gun control=:fgay:
     
  18. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    What about Drug legalization Mike? I know you're cool with weed, caffiene, and alcohol, but what about heroin or coke? Things like that?

    That is rather selective isn't it? The government hasn't taken these drugs away from us. What makes you think if they take assault weapons away, why would they infringe on our right to bear, shall we dare say, less dangerous weaponry? That was a bad choice of words, but we've discussed this so much already you know what I mean by that. There is too much money funneling into Washington from the gun manufacturers that we will never see guns outlawed entirely, for the reasons you pointed out earlier. Your reason for ?ing our government is the reason these guns you are defending are still available today in this country. Ironic huh?

    Boy Michael, this did get me fired up. let's party!!!:beer:
     
  19. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    Another Good Reaons I am for not outlawing all assult weapons, is because the way the miltary is what you prevernt another contry from Taking us over if our forces were deploded in a major war overseas, NOTHING except our citizens WITH GUNS, and state (STATE) sponsored miliata's (which I am for also)

    as for drugs

    1> it is not a constiutional thing
    2> Personally if you want to fuck your ass up with herion your nort hurting me any,

    I know your going to say it increase crime rate, but that is why I have my gun:D
     
  20. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    :stupid: :wtf: I give up....

    as Pee Wee Herman said: "Shhh, I'm listening to reason!!!";)