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Becoming More And More Interested In New Scion Tc

Discussion in 'Car Repair' started by geolemon, Jul 2, 2004.

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  1. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    For those that don't know, Scion is a new branch of Toyota... similar to Lexus, but rather than being higher-end than Toyota, these are cars built to be very price-efficient, entry level cars.
    But intriguing ones...
    My wife wants to trade her VW New Beetle in for a Scion xB.

    The one that's catching my eye is the new tC.
    Just read more about it in the latest Motor Trend, they had an article on it.

    I thought it was pretty stylish to begin with... for $16K, I'd take it over a new Civic or Corolla based on styling... and based on mechanics/reliability, I feel pretty comfortable buying Toyota.
    ...not to mention, the 2.4l motor is simply borrowed from the Camry platform.

    While 160HP might not make the Camry scoot, in a small compact like the refreshingly small tC (why do all cars seem to grow over time? :confused: ), 160HP is PDQ. 0-60 just over 7 seconds - not bad!

    Cooler still - if that isn't enough for you - dealer-installed Vortech supercharger system, providing 5 pounds of boost can be installed for $3K.
    That's about the median price of a Jackson Racing supercharger kit, such as the one that I have on my Civic... and that really, really transformed the car. B)

    And - you can buy performance springs that give a mild 1.25" drop from the dealer, and 17", 18", and even 19" wheel packages...
    ...without worrying about voiding your warranty.

    The interior looks also remarkably clean...
    And of interest to us (car audio guys) - the head unit has a little flip-up door to access it. You can close the door, and your HU is out of sight. Simple, and a good idea, I think! B)

    Also, Motor Trend commented that the tC had "Lexus-like" levels of sound dampening, stock. That's also very cool for an inexpensive car - particularly for us car guys.

    The interior also looks stylish, and I haven't sat in one - but typically Toyota scores high points for ergonomics, and finish and materials quality.

    They were remarking on the car's performance in Motor Trend...
    They said with the 215 width performance tires (same exact tires - brand, model, size and all as on the Lexus sport coupe), 160HP motor, strut-front and multi-link rear suspension, that it really both performed well, and still drove well.
    ...I can imagine how fun the thing is with the Vortech supercharger package.

    Considering the $16K base price of the car... even adding the supercharger and the spring package to the car would leave you below $20K - and maybe best of all - not trying to additionally save up money on the side to purchase things like performance upgrades, superchargers, etc.
    Sounds like a cool car to me!

    I think I'll let the platform age for a year... but maybe next year, I'll be behind the wheel of one! I certainly can't think of a car that has more potential bang for the buck than this one at this point - and don't see any on the horizon.
     
    geolemon, Jul 2, 2004
    #1
  2. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    when ever I hear that name I get matrix Flash Backs :p :p :p
     
    The_Ancient, Jul 3, 2004
    #2
  3. hobbes26

    hobbes26 Full Member

    - High power? bah!
    - No knobs?!? I love having a knob volume... Hate the button ones.
    - No distortion limiter... cools, I love having distortion in my music :rolleyes: Maybe they'll make it distort like tubes
     
    hobbes26, Jul 3, 2004
    #3
  4. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    Oh, who cares about that... :lol:

    I wasn't talking about the audio system... come on man, you are a car audiophile right? :p
    That will all come out immediately...
    ...or maybe the salesman can sell you on the Bazooka tube that you can buy as an option? :lol:
    Just teasing you...

    ...I was simply mentioning that the center console lid that covers the HU is a good idea - stealth, and better still - stock stealth. B)

    Things that are relevant to us:
    Sound deadening like a Lexus - stock.
    Head unit cover "lid" - stock.
    It's a small hatchback with a big hatch.


    ...The rest of the stuff appeals to "car guys"... performance, light weight, style, power...
    But the low price appeals to everyone, too. B)
     
    geolemon, Jul 3, 2004
    #4
  5. hobbes26

    hobbes26 Full Member

    Maybe you should go test one out this year and see if it really has that "Lexus-like sound deadening".... They don't seem to offer that car in Canada...
     
    hobbes26, Jul 4, 2004
    #5
  6. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    I will...
    My wife seems quite committed to the idea of selling her VW next year and buying an xB.
    Maybe about the same time, I might be interested in selling my supercharged Civic and buying a supercharged tC?
    Regardless, I'll certainly be taking at least a standard tC for a drive (I doubt they've got a single Vortec-enabled tC on any lot, when they do hit the lots - at least around here).
     
    geolemon, Jul 5, 2004
    #6
  7. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Think we can get a group buy rate Geo? B)

    I'm also letting the brand "age".
    But most likely March/April '05 i'll be after an Xb.

    Initially i thought i'd wait for three reasons:
    1.) time to hear "bug reports" and complaints in general
    2.) see what improvements/changes next year brings
    3.) take advantage of dealer incentives on leftover models

    Well, now it's come down to the idea that i can get the current hoopty through another winter.

    Scion Xb's sold thus far - 25,000+

    Leaves very little chance for ANY buying incentives. Theres also a "no haggle" policy so what it comes down to... if you're lucky, you might get $100 gift certificate towards "dealer options".

    Here's the thing about dealer options... the prices suck!
    If you don't mind financing that with the base price, cool... but you're really overpaying, and paying finance charges on top of it.

    Warranty issues won't be a concern, as i understand it, Scion encourages modding. You can save alot of cash with aftermarket.


    The Xa is weird looking... apparently many ppl think so too, as they are'nt selling nearly as well as the Xb. But, the Xa is cheaper, and you may have more luck with incentives on that model.

    The Tc on the other hand... sweet ride indeed!
    Too bad i'm looking more for cargo space and low price. The Tc is the highest price model, and for good reason... the 2.4L motor alone makes it an excellent choice, as the other models are only 1.6L equipped. Still, i'm looking for economy and i guess the latter will give me just that.


    The sound system... by PIONEER... has NO Pre-Outs! :ranting:
    For all the cool shit they tried to do, you'd think that would be a key feature. Thus as a result, the stock stereo system will be the first thing i rip out, in it's entirety.

    The factory alarm is a big JOKE. Stay away.

    The "cargo cover" and "floor mats" are real expensive and real crappy.

    The paint and carpeting on the Scions are Not high quality... but for the price, it's not That bad either. One buyer reported a loose back window.

    I've been reading and reading about these cars, the "issues" are all outlined above. For the price, i can deal with that stuff. The only other thing, is your dealership. Some guys are scalping big time. I'll follow up on that if anyone cares :)
     
    _gonz_, Jul 7, 2004
    #7
  8. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    As far as the options...
    It already comes loaded, essentially.

    ALL cars overcharge for floormats... or so you think, until you don't buy them, and realize that for 1/4 the price you only get 1/20th the quality... seriously, that's one silly option I'll never pass up again. :p

    The Vortec supercharger for the tC is priced right, at $3000, IMO.
    Jackson Racing supercharger kits for the various cars they build kits for generally cost at leats $3000 - and leave it to you to install. ;)

    As far as reliability - that's one reason I'm waiting a year. I never buy first model year cars... even trivial issues piss me right off.
    But one positive thought is that many of the tC's parts are NOT new parts... the engine for example is the 2.4 straight out of the Camry. Been around for a while. B)

    And as far as "no haggle" pricing... the prices are very good, IMO.
    ...but how can they stop you from haggling? :lol:
    I'd be interested to hear what you mean by scalping!
     
    geolemon, Jul 7, 2004
    #8
  9. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    True.

    Actually i find this very attractive... however, we'll get back into this in a sec.

    No. but one sec. for that...

    This is where scalping comes in actually... we're getting there...

    Actually, value dictates what i am willing to deal with. If we're talking crappy carpet, that's a whole lot easier to live with than a faulty design in some linkage, for example.

    Bingo!
    Once i had been given a Corolla (rental) to drive on business. The trip was Buffalo to Albany for a week, home for a weekend, then Michigan for two weeks, back home. It was the most i'd ever driven continuously, the job *was* driving, like non-stop really. That Toyota, being a "economy car" was great! Nothing about it i disliked at all, and i beat the hell out of it. did i mention it was a rental? hehe

    Therefore based on Toyota's idea of "value"... i would'nt hesitate to go with a Toyota product. Way better than a Dodge Neon IMO.

    As i said, there is "Pure Pricing" on Scion cars... like Saturn has. Therefore, you pay sticker plus "Dealer fees" tax/lisc. and that's bout it. The only "dealing" a dealership can do... is on accessories. Plus, between the new Xb and last years model, there is currently a whole whoppin' $30.00 difference in sticker. Not much of an incentive, and when you figure the success of this car so far, i dont see that changing - near future.

    Ok, dig this...

    1st, you have to understand Scion's stance on "Pure Pricing".
    The Scion franchise is *super hot* right now... to get a Scion dealership you have to make alot of promises/agreements and adhere to Scion's TOS. If you violate their contract, you'll get yanked fast. Seeing as this is the first company aiming straight at the "Tuner culture"... Toyota/Scion is having No Problems getting dealerships, they also have No Problems dumping one. Moving cars is Not an issue.

    What is happening as a result, is scalping. This occurs (usually) one of three ways...

    a.) Dealer charges excessive "Paperwork fees"

    b.) Dealer marks up accessories (by alot)

    c.) Dealer recieves car, stuffs it full of B.S. like neon lights and stickers, then tries to charge you twice. When this is the case, you cannot purchase a base model Scion off his lot, because they've all been "stuffed" with $500 LEDs, $75 floormats, and $400 bazooka subwhimpers.

    As for superchargers and floormats as well as other accessories...
    If the supercharger retails for $3000.00 you will NOT get it installed for $3,000 at Scion. Please double check your info. I'm not "up on" such engine components, but i can tell you what i've found out...

    The cold air intake can be had for about $179.00

    A better alarm for $125 (with rem. start/2-way paging) That *actually works*

    The same bazooka sub for $150

    Custom made vinyl graphics installed for less than half what Scion wants.

    LED cupholders? FFS. You can do cathodes, i have guides on it, and it'll cost ya $40 total, and be brighter and controllable.

    Their floormats "shred" quickly, Dont waste the money. I'm thinking of getting the diamond plate floormats, they'll never wear out and cost $10 more than the shit carpet Scion sells.

    Basically every "add-on" they offer is at least twice retail. And, in some cases, for the exact same items. But who cares who makes your air intake? APC, Injen, whatever... quality is quality.

    I'm sure you know all this already but hey :)
    These are the main things (complaints) i'm hearing from buyers/dealers.

    That, and plus the stereo sucks bad. I would like to buy a Scion without that BS in it. Why should i have to pay for it in the first place, i'm sure it makes up at least $500 of the base price. Now that sucks IMO.




    btw, OT but... since i'm here....
    i'd like to get you paid, call me! :bye:

    I've also got the Scion's wire color codes. Do you "do" alarms dude?
     
    _gonz_, Jul 8, 2004
    #9
  10. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    I actually hate doing alarms...
    Good for a headache and a sore back, not to mention a whole day's labor. Ick.
    Not looking forward to doing the pathfinder... but not going to actually get the pathfinder done until I do... so it's inevitable. :(

    I'm working at the local skatepark here noon-4 pretty much every day currently, and I'm pretty much home anytime outside of that...
    Give me a ring if I haven't called you yet. I've always got my cell on me, except when I'm at the park (and it's just not in my pocket, I've got it there). B)

    ...I'd like to get paid, too! :lol:
     
    geolemon, Jul 9, 2004
    #10
  11. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    Oh...

    All my info came from that Motor Trend article - this month's motor trend (I'd give you the month/page number, but I have the issue at the park office, not here right now). They claimed $3K for the Vortec supercharger - and this is motor trend... not exactly a DIY rag.

    But, I've done a Jackson Racing supercharger install on my Civic - a Vortec install by comparison would likely be much simpler. ;)
     
    geolemon, Jul 9, 2004
    #11
  12. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Ok well, Scion lists all their dealer add-ons on their site.
    http://www.scion.com/drive/accessories/tc_gallery/index.html

    There is No Supercharger option. I don't know where the mag got their info?

    But hey, you can buy this!!

    $525 huh? WHATTA DEAL!!!!


    Battery Tie Down & Oil Filter Cap $120
    Cold Air Induction $335
    Front Strut Tie Bar $225
    Sport Pedal Covers $79

    Scion Security $469*
    The VIP Scion Security system includes auto re-arm, door lock/re-lock, interior light activation, and panic mode.


    Kinda nuts bro.

    Anyways..
    I'll call ya this afternoon and try to hook up with ya. Can do anytime after 5pm.
     
    _gonz_, Jul 9, 2004
    #12
  13. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Perhaps the mag article was referring to aftermarket "bolt ons" for added performance easily, quoting the average street price?

    Or, maybe Toyota dealers are doing side sells of the standard 2.4L kit, since it's the standard motor?

    But a dealer selling anything *installed* for aftermarket parts counter pricing is rather odd, would'nt you say?

    no sign of any Tc articles on their website yet :(
     
    _gonz_, Jul 9, 2004
    #13
  14. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    $525 isn't that bad for a polished stainless exhaust, actually.
    My RS*R exhaust for my Civic cost me over $600 - and that was more than 7 years ago! :unsure:

    Anyways... you think THOSE options are expensive... you should see what the Honda dealer thinks it can get for silly things like oil filler caps and spark plug wire covers... rediculous... :crutch:
     
    geolemon, Jul 9, 2004
    #14
  15. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Yeah, at least it is stainless... i'm just pretty positive i can find any of this stuff a good buck cheaper.

    I'm a thrifty bastard bro! Don't have much choice in the matter.

    My first job "on the books" was at Mid-City Dodge on Walden Ave.
    I learned alot at that place.
    Rule #1... never, ever, trust a dealership.

    Anyways,
    Maybe you'll like this... my favorite Scion forum, chock full o' info!
    http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewforum....ays=0&start=200

    Was good seein' ya again, and YGM re: stuff discussed.
     
    _gonz_, Jul 9, 2004
    #15
  16. fb4076

    fb4076 Full Member

    I really like the Scion TC, actually I am thinking about purchasing one as soon as I can get my hands on one to test drive. I am a little nervous about purchasing the first year.... just wondering how other people feel on that issue.
     
    fb4076, Jul 25, 2004
    #16
  17. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    We're holding out for that very reason.

    They came out in California first, as a "test market" i guess, and they've been out overseas for awhile. (Asian tuner magazines are packed with Xb models and mods) That said, i'm not positive if the Scions have been out for a full year before we got them, or if it was only six months. I'm unclear on specific dates/timeframe.

    Of the three models, the Tc is the newest in the line and apparently it IS new this year. However, it's using a proven Toyota engine.

    I was also hoping there would be improvements and/or dealer incentives. But as i mentioned earlier, the cars are hot sellers, so i doubt they'll have any special programs to get rid of em. Apparently they can't make enough.

    As far as improvements or changes, i have'nt heard of anything thus far. Most common complaint is that the Xb is underpowered, but i've heard nothing of a coming motor option or upgrade. The Tc on the other hand, has a 2.4L standard. Underpowered should not apply to that car.
     
    _gonz_, Jul 26, 2004
    #17
  18. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    That's an understatement.
    Motor Trend stated that the motor was actually oversized for that car - it's got the 2.4L 4 cylinder from the midsize Camry.
    0-60 time is 7.5 seconds, and if that's not fast enough for you, Motor Trend mentioned that Vortec supercharger that I mentioned in my origional post.

    So, it's not a fully new car... I'd be less fearful of buying a first-year car because of this.
    But... it's still a first-year car in many other respects... so I'd be careful.
    Personally, I'm likely to wait out a year.
     
    geolemon, Jul 26, 2004
    #18
  19. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    2.4L wimpy wimp wimp

    damn Ricers :rolleyes: :lmfao:
     
    The_Ancient, Jul 27, 2004
    #19
  20. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Hardly. :boxing:

    Theres nothing like city driving in a turbo 4cyl.
    8cyls are inefficient, slower 0-60, weigh too much, etc...
    I love the old 8s don't get me wrong, but they are hardly practical for dailys.

    Reason being, most rather have peppy performance combined with 30MPG
    Than boat towing capability, and 8MPG.

    Unfortunately...
    I will be wimpy wimp wimp with the Xb.
    Trading size and space for engine displacement.
    Hopefully i can come up with some mods to make a 1.6L somewhat better,
    But i ain't holding my breath. Wishing for a 2.4L :(

    We don't need speeding tickets anyhow.
     
    _gonz_, Jul 27, 2004
    #20
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