I Hate Gm!

Discussion in 'General Car Audio Discussions' started by nismo, Apr 13, 2004.

  1. nismo

    nismo Full Member

    i bought my 97 s10 2.2 5 speed in august of 2k3. i paid 3000 for it, so i know i shouldnt expect it to be perfect. it has 110k miles and is on its 2nd engine. i dont know what the deal was with the first motor, but it bit the dust just short of 100k. i believe it was neglected somewhat...but anyhow...

    i found a radiator leak the other day (or at least something in the cooling system), so i took the truck to the shop, and 97 bux later i had a flushed cooling system, and a new lower hose on the radiator. i know i should have had them replace all the hoses while they were at it, but oh well. i go to pick it up and they drive it around front for me to leave, and i cant get my truck to start. i tried several times before i went back in, but it didnt work. the mechanic came out, turned the key and it fired right up. he shut it off and let me start it. of course it fired right up. i swore at it a time or two, then drove 2 blocks to walmart. my truck didnt start when i went to leave. so back to the shop it went and they told me the fuel pump had gone bad (which was one of the conclusions i came to when i was trying to make it run), and 590 bux later, i once again have a running truck. i drove the car home, and found that it took a big dump on the floor...and im pretty sure its the transmission fluid. i dont seem to be losing any oil from the motor, so im guessing that the tranny is at fault. anyhow, i backed the truck out of the garage tonight, and half way out, the truck died. i thought maybe i had let the clutch out too quick, but when i went to start it back up, it wouldnt fire. i hit it again, and it fired up.

    one thing i never noticed before i got the fuel pump replaced, that i see now, is a hissing sound coming from the fuel tank area. ive heard it on other cars, so im assuming this is normal. one thing im wondering about though, is if the fuel filter might be causing this issue. i dont know when the last time it was replaced was, but im thinking of replacing it soon.

    anyhow, im really concerned about the leak under my truck...to the point that im nervous about driving it to work (its about 7 miles through the country). i know the nv1500 transmissions suck, and ive heard that i can swap a 90 (or was it 91?) to 93 mustang 5 speed, and use a bellhousing from a 94-95 s10 2.2 5 speed to make it work...but im not sure about all the details.

    i just want my damn truck to work! i havent even made a payment on it (i owe the parents for the truck AND the fuel pump and they had to put the pump on the charge cuz they didnt have the money, so i HAVE to come up with the money for that, as well as anything else). oh yeah, and my muffler is leaking H2O now...so i gotta get that replaced as well, along with the pcv tube that i broke.

    damn i hate gm :blowup:

    eric
     
  2. nismo

    nismo Full Member

    there's more to the story, but i cant remember it right now.

    eric
     
  3. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    all these problems... on a 97???

    Holy crow!

    And $590 for a fuel pump?

    $97 for a hose replacement and flush sounds not horrible (although those hoses are usually pretty easy to get to), but wow...

    :baby:

    :bag:

    :puke:

    :ranting:

    :crutch:

    etc..
     
  4. delvryboy

    delvryboy Full Member

    i feel your pain

    my great little 91 camery met it's untimely death when my wife decided to run it up under an oldsmobile

    the car had 150,000 on it...and it never ever gave me any down time

    so it's back to driving the 92 cavy with 112,000 on it for work

    it's had 1 radiator, 2 alty's, 1 starter, all hoses twice over, head gasket, fuel pump x2, heater core, window regulator, calipers x6, wheel cylinders x4, o2 sensor x3, belt tensioner, and 1000 other misc.

    it's been back on the road since the 9th....the solenoid on the starter is taking a crap and the radiator has sprung a leak :blink:


    when i get rid of the caddy(i do love that car despite it's hoard of gremlins), and it's 4 waterpumps, 1 radiator, and 1 AC compressor......i will never own another American car again....sorry dad :bag:


    Seth is really gonna hate this thread :2guns:
     
  5. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    You guys need to stop going to these shops... Holy crikes, 6 calipers? No wonder mechanics have a bad name :rolleyes: .

    $590 is awful pricey for a feul pump, in my shop (and we are one of the highest in town) you might pay $300. 1.5 hours and $150 or so for the pump...and that is a factory pump, not aftermarket. You got jacked. The whining at the tank is a bad bearing in the new feul pump, get it replaced before you eat your lunch.

    Now the tranny is leaking? Find the leak and report, but I bet I know where it is coming from. You say you never had the leak before? When the shop took the tank out to replace the pump, they likely removed the driveshaft as well. It makes in much easier to remove the tank. My bet is they damaged the output shaft seal when they put the slip yoke back in there ;) . Now you have a new leak ;) . No biggie, make them fix it, they broke it. When I do a pump in a truck where the driveshaft needs to be pulled, I like to put a new seal in it then. Great insurance, and it saves me a comeback/free job ;).
     
  6. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    Well there are two things

    1. like seth siad you being ripped off, not surpising

    2> your Driving Habits are TERRIBLE

    Do you do ANY preventivte Mant. ?????


    like the Wheel Cly. Did you ever Re Grease them?????

    Fuel Pumps, how long has it been since the Filter Was Changed???

    Hoses What kind did you by.. Cheap hoses Wear out faster than the More Expensive ones

    Head Gasket, --- Did you let it overheat due to your Hoes and Ratiator Problems???


    Radiator -- did you ever have if Flush... This should be done every 30-40,000 miles

    Heator Core -- Same things as Above

    So ou can not blame the car if your negleting it
     
  7. nismo

    nismo Full Member

    the tranny didnt start leaking after they worked on it...it was already leaking. it just so happens that it took a leak on my garage floor after i got it home. i really needed to have it serviced anyhow.

    as for the fuel pump, it was a fuel pump/fuel level sender, and it was 390 for that. the labor was 4 hours @ 45 bux, so it comes pretty close to what i paid. there was a few other little things on there as well.

    as for the things that i forgot, well my truck didnt appear to have any rust on it until i found a HOLE my finger fit into the day my truck wouldnt start at walmart :(

    ill make sure and talk to them about the fuel pump.

    eric
     
  8. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    4 hours is very steep, but at $45 per I guess I wouldn't complain. We get $70-$80 per, and at home I charge $35-45 (customer dependant of course). I looked up the Delco pump and it only comes as a pump/sender assy with a strainer seperate. List on the pump is almost $700, so that is a good deal... jobber on the unit is just over $340. I had assumed a seperate pump and sender, but apparently theyu are not serviced seperately.

    As far as the tranny though Eric, they are not bad trannys at all. We have several customers with those trannys in them, and I only recall going through 1 of them (remarkably it was the same truck I mentioned I just put an engine in in the other thread about grounds you started, but that was 3 years ago). Hers is a 4WD, and she beats the shit out of it though.

    Delvryboy,

    All I gotta say is, you need to find a better mechanic and one who uses good parts. The tentioners and head gaskets are really bad about taking a dump on the 2.2 (yes, the same motor as in Erics truck). They leak externaly out the rear of the engine. That is a very common problem and one that has never been rectified.

    The radiator is not plastic and should not spring a leak unless overpressurized (due to an overheat), poor maintainance (I flush mine annually and I only use Prestone) or a poor quality replacement.

    2 alts means a poor replacement or diagnosis. I just don't see the 2.2 having alt problems (the 3.1s eat them up though ;) ). Starters happen. Calipers 6X is 1 of 2 things, a rip off by your mechanic, or there is another problem that the mechanic is not correctly diagnosing. Wheel cylinders sounds like a rip off to me as well, particularly when you say 4X... You shouldn't even need brake shoes yet at that mileage, and I never see those cylinders take a dump. I smell a rat there. Hoses 2X? For maintainance I suggest them every 60,000 and I suspect your mechanic is also doing the same. 3 O2s? That should have an old Delco O2 which don't have problems. Again, if you are using aftermarket universal cheapies, you are getting just that. For engine controll components (including ignition components and plugs) I ALWAYS use factory, and I DO NOT offer my customers a cheaper route. My job is hard enough, I am not going to hunt an issue on a part I replaced 4 months ago ;) .

    Frankly all these things seem as if your mechanic is taking you down a rough road... I suggest finding a new one.
     
  9. nismo

    nismo Full Member

    are you sure you are talking about the nv1500? im not trying to question your knowledge, but i was under the impression that the 4.3's had the nv3500, and anything with 4wd had the 6 cylinder. i know the nv3500's are a lot more solid, but they cannot be swapped for the nv1500 :(

    ive heard from several s10 guys that the nv1500 is notoriously weak.

    eric
     
  10. delvryboy

    delvryboy Full Member

    haha, lets decifer my rant :D

    the first alty was a procharge from pepboys...it lasted 2 months, and i made them refund me instead of warranty replacement....the second is from GM and it's lasted me 2+ years

    o2 sensors...bosch...the current is ac delco...and has been good for 1+ year

    head gasket....the usual, replaced it back when i bought it...about 4 years

    tensioner...normal, have seen it on numerous 2.2's

    calipers, 3 of them seized on me, 1 the bleeder screw was broken when i replaced a hose, the last 2 were for hell of it since they run about $14 a peice ;)

    wheel cylinders were leaking, first time coated the LR shoes with brake fluid...second time the RR side was leaking...so i just up and replaced both ..$12 a peice

    shoes would have been original had they not been soaked wit5h break fluid

    heater core...not blocked or leaking, but athe plastic inlet tube had a small crack in it...would leak when ever it deemed neccasary....took me a while to figure that one out

    hoses....who knows

    radiator had a leak up top when i bought the car, replaced it...it has been sitting for about 1 year, don't know why it's leaking now but it is


    i am the mechanic ;) ....so the repair costs are minimal, except the tensioner....didn't have the time for it...but the mechanic only charged me $110...so very good price

    still, i have always been frustrsrated with the little repairs


    camery, i replaced the brake pads twice....thats it over the last 3 years


    also, i have learned my lesson with cheap parts....it's only cheap at the present moment, in the long haul, it is 3x more expensive ;)
     
  11. PolkMM

    PolkMM Full Member

    I have a 96 GMC 3/4 ton truck and never had any horrible problems with it
    i have had to replace the alternator twice(the first replacement was a dud i guess...it went out in about a month, 2nd one has been perfect for the year ive had it), brake calipers once, master cylinder, power steering hose(typical GM weak spot), carrier(sp?) bearing on the drive shaft, windshield wiper motor(recall from GM, but it actually would crap out on me sometimes), and the a/c compressor
    i believe thats all
    it has 185k miles on it
    not that bad IMO
    it was a work truck before i got it and was obviously treated pretty poorly
    water in the radiator...etc.
    im not exactly a "light foot" either, its gets semi-abused by me, but is also very well taken care of
    i fill it up with 89 octane once every 3 months, change the oil regularly with Castrol Syntec among many other things
    i have heard a lot of problems with GM's smaller trucks though, like your S10
    i also agree that some of you seem to be getting screwed by your mechanics
    i also have the whine coming from my fuel pump but have heard about the whine many times from various people who have ran with it like that and never had a problem
    but ill look into the bad bearing you mentioned
    all in all, ill never buy a truck that isnt GM unless i get an outstanding deal on something else
    i have had experience with fords and dodges and overall, it seems GM seems to stand up the best
    -Cody
     
  12. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    Hi, my name is Chris, and I have car trouble.

    <Hi, Chris!>

    I've got a 1995 Civic that's got a surging idle problem, not sure what the cause is.

    I've got a 1995 Nissan Pathfinder that's got it's brake idiot light lit, and then the ABS light comes on shortly after.
    It's also starting to make a howling noise from the front drivers side wheel.
    When it first starts up it sounds like a deisel truck for a minute.
    It had a perpetual exhaust leak that I finally fixed this month.
    Worst of all, it's got a blue houndstooth print interior.

    <sits down>

    <bites cookie, sips coffee>
     
  13. delvryboy

    delvryboy Full Member

    ROFL :lmfao:
     
  14. Honest Bob

    Honest Bob Full Member

    Damn, I've only ever had to replace the radiator and alt in my '84 Sunbird. Only put like 20k on it though. Both my Nissans never really had a problem either.
     
  15. nismo

    nismo Full Member

    yeah, so my hatred for GM grows. my oil leak is NOT my tranny. its the F*CKING headgasket. darn near 1300 bux worth of work to my truck in a week.

    btw, seth is it possible to reuse my dexcool since it has like 50 miles on it, and this shop is the same that put in the coolant?

    eric
     
  16. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    Your head gasket is leaking oil?

    I have seen several engines do this, but not the 2.2s... It is somewhat possible, as the return galley is under the intake runners, but highly unlikely as there is no oil pressure through the head gasket itself. I might lean a bit more towards the oil pump drive O-ring (on the passenger side rear of the motor), or a camshaft galley plug on the back of the block. I seem to recall you mentioned it had a rebuilt motor in it? I have seen many rebuilt motors (particularly from ATK) that leaked by the threaded galley plug due to poor sealer or no sealer being used. I have fixed 4 of them on ATKs, 1 of which cost a mechanic his job :blink:

    Do yourself a favor Nizzy, tell them to shove the Dex-Cool right up their asses. I see SO many issues with that stuff, it is garbage. It crystalizes and blocks radiators, and heater cores. It corrodes like crazy, rotting off quick disconnect fittings in intakes on GM trucks. It clogs radiator cap return passages and creates cap/radiator sealing issues. I HATE the stuff, I mean I really (pardon my french) fucking hate the stuff. When a customer comes in with a cooling system issue and dexcool in the thing I always reccomend a complete flush, and refill with a good green anti-freeze.

    Oh yeah, about those stickers... he said he would bring me a hundred or so next week, so as soon as I get them, I'll be sending them out to you ;)
     
  17. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    You can't reuse the coolant if the headgasket is leaking...
    Because that means the coolant and oil are mixing. :eek:

    Not good!
     
  18. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    Are you saying then, that you suspect that the mechanic might simply be trying to pull one over on him - ie. his head gasket isn't damaged, but the mechanic can fix the real problem - and get $1300 for the job, rather than... I don't know, $100?

    Sounds like time for a new mechanic, to me...
    Or at least a second opinion!

    Honestly, I thought I heard really good things about those 2.2's...
    My friend had an older S-10, and I heard those things couldn't be killed.

    Isn't that the old "Iron Duke?"
    Or has it actually changed since the 80's (other than the fuel/ignition system)?
     
  19. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    No, Iron Dukes were 2.4s. So dubbed because they were all iron, even the cylinder head. Massively tough tiny little engines. They would rattle like an SOB all the time, but never dropped out. The 2.2 has aluminum heads and lots of head gasket problems. It is common in the Cavaliers.

    I don't think the guy is jerking him off (he could have sold alot more than the lower hose and a flush if that were so, there are several easy hoses on that truck), I just feel he is mistaken. Under the truck there are a huge number of braces on the engine and tranny that make inspection almost impossible. How bad could it be? The S-10 I stuffed a motor in last week had the 2.2L engine in it, stickshift (less labor than an auto). It paid over 18 hours to R&R the motor, including transfer of optional parts/standard accessories. That is an inline 4 cylinder in a pickup truck...

    I did an engine in an Astrovan a couple months ago, a 4.3L. Including removal of the grill, and entire front clip assembly, radiator, evaporator core (and evacuation and recharge of the AC system) transfer of optional parts/standard equipment of a V6 IN A VAN with an automatic, paid... 17 hours.

    It is hard to see in there and if you don't know the problems that are common with them, you may misdiagnose them. Also, if you don't understand the physics of an oil leak, it is easy to misjudge the problem. Having seen alot of these problems (hey, I do 98% GM stuff and I always work in a shop where we do everything, so heavy line is common and I have seen ALOT) I know where to look. I have seen some strange shit in my day... I got stories you wouldn't believe

    Oh and by the way, the $1100 is for the flush, coolant hose, feul pump and the head. The head is no big deal on these things. They can be banged out in 5 hours or so.
     
  20. chadillac3

    chadillac3 Full Member

    Damn, anything I should know about the 3.4L in my Grand Am? :)