4ch Frontstage Amplifiers

Discussion in 'Car Stereo Amplifiers' started by Poseur, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    Okay, so I've asked before, but never really got much for responce. I'm in need of something more stable than my current tsunamis that seem to go about 2months betweeen service intervals.

    Ideally I simply need something that puts out approx 100wX4 (preferably more, but I can make due with less) I'd like it to fit under my seat, so no taller than 3" or longer than 22". Additionally I've got a somewhat limited bufget, I'd say in the 4bill kinda range give or take, but ultimately if it's more and justifiable, I can find a way to afford it. I'd like to get something new, but if there's a deal on worthwhile used stuff, I'd be game as well. I mostly just really wish that it be reliable. I'm REALLY not fond of having to pull my seat, pull my amp, send it in, wait a couple weeks, get it back, pull my seat, re-install, re-adjust, etcetc...

    Also I'd prefer for there to be a similar-looking amp available for my sub as eventually I hope to get a new sub amp as well. 1x1000ish at 1 or 4ohms should be fine there.

    My list of possibilities:

    Soundstream VanGogh
    MBQuart refrence series
    Alphasonik
    Cadence (I know alot of ppl over here seem to like them)

    I've ruled out phoenix gold seeingas the new xenons, while ideally within my desires, have had multipl failures reported, some involving fires, and that just doesn't much excite me.
     
  2. forbidden

    forbidden Full Member

    Add the Eclipse PA5422 to this list. While it comes in at a tad less power (85w x 4) than what you require it will no doubt fulfill your needs. It would take a meter to "hear" any difference in output levels between this amp and one that was rated at 100w x 4. It's a great build quality, highly versatile with an amazing crossover section in it. Still built in the US as well.
     
  3. DerrikW

    DerrikW Full Member

    Cadence z4000. But that's only 4x75. If you absolutely need that much power look for a cadence zrs-4. 125x4. Then since you said you would like to get a new sub amp get a zrs-8, 1500x1 at 1 ohm, and they will match perfectly. They are kinda spendy though.
     
  4. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    I'd support the Cadence 4x75, as I"d expect it to hold up well compared to "other guys" 4x100's out there.
    ...particularly when you factor in that small differences in power don't amount to anything audible, in the end - remember, it takes a fourfold change in power to effect a twofold change in dB level. It's not symmetrical.

    However - you might check out things like Audison's SRx line - or Diamond's D3 line... entry level lines from high-end companies are often a great way to go. For example, the Diamond in particular... what you seem to trade off isn't amp board design or quality, but rather you get a simpler heatsink, and simple screw terminals, rather than the fancy connectors and flashy cosmetics.
    Doesn't matter much to me - once it's wired up, it's wired up, IMO. B)
     
  5. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    Thanks for the tip on Diamond, I've yet to really look into those.

    As far as power is concerned, yes I'm quite aware that Audible differences aren't going to be huge going from 75 to 100, but I'd REALLY like to have as much juice as possible.

    Eclipse.. I've actually HAD that amp previously. Loved it, but didn't really have asmuch respect for it as I should've. I foolishly sold it to get a cosmetically matching pair of tsunami's (that was right up there with the dumbest things I've ever done) I am indeed considering it again, but I'd also like to have something a little different and quite frankly I've got some issues with a shop I help out at on occasion. If they're not gonna let me get decent discounts then I'm gonna run something entirely different and let them try to explain to customers why it is that the best sounding car there doesn't run a single thing they sell. Damn I'm an ass at times.

    my other couple of considerations,
    MTX
    RF (I know their new power series is sweet, but WAY toohuge)
    US Amps

    Blah this stuff get way too complicated. I just want some clean reliable power that'll fit under my seat...
     
  6. SteamHammer

    SteamHammer Full Member

    I own the Eclipse 5422 and it works out great in our minivan. Don't like the Xover much becuase of the shallow 12db slopes but it's a solid product otherwise.

    Here are some other choices that would work out for you and not break the bank:

    MA Audio 204sx 75x4 into 4ohms
    Clif Designs CD600A 90x4 into 4ohms
    Ample Audio EXONIC 274 90x4 into 4ohms
     
  7. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Just to put in a few pennies...

    I suggest looking at the Audison SRX line.

    I ended up going with Cadence, but this was before i even realized that Audison makes something this nice, yet affordable.

    Here's a little overview -
    http://www.pasmag.com/news/get.asp?ID=684

    It's hard to find any deals on Cadence, but i have seen some of these SRX amps on eGay. I've had great luck scoring my stuff very cheap, so give it a shot. Otherwise, you may try whispering sweetly in Geolemon's PM box. His buddy is an Audison dealer. As well as Cliff design, and MA Audio, so i second the notion to look at those. He might be able to help you get either.

    I have gained alot of listening experience with Focal drivers on Audison amps and i'd have to say it's the best stuff i have ever heard, thus far...
    But i know i can't really afford it :p

    As for Cadence, it's nice stuff... but at retail price, it's not cheap by no means.
    For example the Z4000 4x75 ... MSRP is $519.00
    and $255.95 is the cheapest online price i know of.

    Audison seems to fit the bill here, see if you can find a good price. It's surprisingly BIG sounding with the seemingly low output wattage specs. Underrated? Or just huge quality? I dont know, but i like it. When 100 watts sounds better/louder/cleaner than many 1000 watt products, you know something is good.
     
  8. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    I'm prettymuch planning on spending atleast 4 bills on my 4ch, of course less is always nice, but if I can always scratch for more...

    Anyone have any audison pricelists anywhere bychance? From what I've seen they're prettymuch just hard to get ahold of period... 'cause y'kno that VRx 4.300 is aweful tasty-looking. I'm just curious how out-of-reach it may be.

    As far as crossovers, I'm not overly concerned there as currently I've got no need for them as I can Run everything off of my deck, highpass (mid-tweet) bandpass (midbass) and lowpass (sub) All with adjustable points and slopes. If I need more control, I'll just get an outboard pre-amp crossover.

    I've heard mixed things of Clif Designs, MA and a couple others, and prettymuch I just don't want any question, I'm getting different amps so that I can have something nice, clean, and stable. If I windup just needing to save my pennies a little bit longer, then so be it. But I'm hoping I can at least narrow thigns down.

    I really do appreciate all of you guys' input, Being in my little sheltered podunk town, it's difficult to really get out and experience such things of musical greatness. I've been learning alot in these past couple months since my elemental blowup...
     
  9. SteamHammer

    SteamHammer Full Member

    PM me up if you are interested in any of the Cadence amps. I sell Cadence and can get you any of them with wartrenty.
     
  10. AustinKP

    AustinKP Full Member

    Hifonics Zeus ZX6400: 85Wx4 for $220 shipped from Sounddomain after pricematching Ikesound(I think) - I have one, and am VERY impressed with it.

    Autotek XS-900.4 - 110x4 - very good reputation $379 from CBRstereo.com...might be cheaper elsewhere. I only checked there.

    Crossfire VR804 - 100x4 - around $400, again, might be cheaper elsewhere

    MTX Thunder1004 - quite underrated 125x4 - excellent choice - $369 @ CBR

    Orion 8004 - 100x4 - $399 @ carmedia1.com
     
  11. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Just for a rough idea, based on what i've seen ebay-wise...

    the 4ch SRX amps are $350-$400
    and the LRX versions jump about $100, making them around $450

    I'll see what i can find out for you this evening / tomorrow morning about going thru authorized and trusted sources ;)
     
  12. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    Wow, you guys truely rule...

    Hammer> I may, indeed be doing that.

    Austin> above and beyond man, I appreciate it.

    Gonz> oohyea. them LRx's are looking tastier and tastier.
     
  13. AustinKP

    AustinKP Full Member

    No problem man. Just about a week ago, I threw away this big list I made of like 10+ amps that I was considering that put out ~100Wx4. I got my HiFonics, so I didn't think I'd need it any more. Dang :)
     
  14. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    Okay, so things are looking more and more like I'll be going the cadence route. I just recently discovered the Z6000, however, and thought that it might lend itself well towards running a tri-amped 3-way setup.
    Soes anyone know how the 6000 is configured? I've seen some listings saying it's 6x75 and others saying it's 5x75+1x400. If I got this, I'd be wanting to use it to tri-amp my front stage, so haveing an even output would be necessary, or even if it were like 4x75+2x100 that'd be perfect as well since I could use a bit more juice for midbass, however if it's setup to have one of the extra channels sub-dedicated it'd definately be out of the picture...

    Also, does anyone know if the A series is still around (A4 and A7HC) they're listed on the cadence website, but it also says that it's the 2003 catalog, so perhaps they're out-dated? IFso do they have replacements? I've heard of an RS4, but I've also heard that its' pretty huge (as in over 20" long which'd make it not fittable for under-seat)
     
  15. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Problem is bro, the only guy who i know, who might have access to Cadence, would be Steamhammer!

    usacaraudio cannot be trusted at this point, and besides eGay i've never seen a site with em. !!Actually, theres these guys!! http://nexxon.com/catalog/index.php?manufa...&sort=4a&page=3


    z6000 Specs? besides going by the outdated website (is it even on there?)
    here's my guess...

    my amp is:
    100x2rms @4ohm
    150x2rms @2ohm
    it's 300x1 at 4ohm bridged with a "dynamic" max of 400w

    so based on what you've found,
    "some listings saying it's 6x75 and others saying it's 5x75+1x400."

    i'm going to stab a guess:

    6x75rms @4ohm
    4x125/150rms @2ohm + 1x300/400 rms @2ohm
    likely it'll bridge to 300rms at 4ohm, but i'm doubtful you'll see 400watts at 4ohm unless we're talking that "dynamic max" rating. so i'd say what you saw was close, but def. not a 5+1, rather 4+1 and definitely a peak 400w IMO.

    Here's the ratings listed at Nexxon for the Z4000 ($283.40)

    4 X 75W @ 4 Ohm
    4 X 150W @ 2 Ohm
    2 X 300W @ 4 Ohm <-- rms and 400 "peak" eh.

    I am inclined to think it's going to be very similar. As far as their website, I don't know whats up with that, it's like they fired their webmaster and never re-hired.

    As far as configs, they are super-flexible.

    I'm pretty sure my amps would'nt fit under any seats besides maybe a large bench seat in a van... and thats only 100x2 ... so yeah, plan for them all to be rather big :blink: and rather heavy :unsure: and pretty badass overall :ph34r:

    I like that Z1200 :yes:
     
  16. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    well it seems the idea of the amp was to do a surround setup with importance being placed upon a center channel, which is what leads me to believe the whole 5x75+ sub bit. (5.1) but who knows.. toomuch of a gamble.
     
  17. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    Actually, i'm curious if you could get a direct answer by emailing Cadence?

    i'd be very surprised at 5x75 + 400x1 ... it just does'nt seem right?
    you're familiar with amps like the Memphis Belle right? Where it's basically 2 amps in 1 chassis... i could see that happening, but, have you ever seen a 5 channel amp? i don't think i have... a 6ch yeah, a 4ch yeah, tri-way mode and shit, but 5 straight channels... uh uh :alien:
     
  18. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    Oh, I know, sounds totally kooky, but they've got like means for creating a "faux" center channel by combining the left and right and such, etc. I've e-mailed, still awaiting that answer. I'm just curious now for the sake of finding out, not evne relaly allthat interested in the amp anymore. The more I poke around at it, though the more it does seem like it's actually a 5.1 setup. just like home audio... only it's got the .1 builtinto it as well. Notsure if you've seen it, but there's a new wave of DVDaudio starting to come around and it's entirely contrary to the classic standards of soundstages, etc. They're all usnig equal powered well-aimed rear-speakers along with centerchannels, etc. One recent issue of ME has a little feature on The Flaming Lips's soundmixer dude's latest rendition of Yoshimi in DVD audio 5.1 They said it's like drugs, music swirling around your head and such in a mannar that's notwhat you're used to but still amazing and allthe more intriguing for how weird it is. *ugh* this is the LAST thing I need. *heh* my frontstage's finally coming together nicely.
     
  19. Poseur

    Poseur Full Member

    This is the type of thing I'm thinking here...
    Checkout the Audison LRx6SR

    "LRx 6.SR is the first Car-Theatre six channel amplifier especially designed to handle complete high performances, excellent quality audio-video systems, in standard Dolby Digital, Prologic, DTS, etc. Special inputs for every channel, built-in active filters, more than 600 watts totally, to meet all quality needs and have bursting power. A final choice, a unique amplifier for car theatre or for central channel systems. Its four crossovers with independent adjustments and its bypass subsonic filter make the realisation of right timbre and right power balance systems easier." -from audiosn's webpage. output 4ohm 5x55+1x150 2ohm 5x80+1x220
     
  20. _gonz_

    _gonz_ Full Member

    oh sure, i've seen the "dolby type" amps... dunno about that, without the aid of a proper processor/decoder... but in any case...

    the odd thing, which you'll notice, is that all the 6ch or 5.1 amps have very similar power on all channels. "output 4ohm 5x55+1x150"

    so 5x75 + 400x1 does'nt seem right, in that sense.

    now i'm sure it's doable, somehow... i just have'nt seen specs that vary so much.





    As for the DVD-Audio thing...

    might be time to buy a junk cargo van or astrovan type thing, for the sake of playing with that surround idea :yes: Theres LOTS of possibilities for DVD based media, and i'm very interested... not in the movie aspect, but musical, as the freq. response is greater. I don't see movies having much place in a vehicle, but DVDs... oh yeah!