What Separates would you buy, 300.00 ceiling.

Discussion in 'Car Stereo Speakers' started by kmagyar, Jun 14, 2006.

  1. kmagyar

    kmagyar Full Member

    You have $300.00 and you need 6.5 mids with tweets (prefferebly a 3 way system) for the front of a Dodge Magnum. What do you choose?

    I like JL XR Series but am interested in Polk's MMC series.


    Thanks for any suggestions,
    Keith
     
  2. Hautewheeler

    Hautewheeler Full Member

    first of all, stick with 2way speaks, and add remote tweets if you need more highs.. 3way speaks sound like a gorilla puking a turtle when you pour the juice to them. I like the infinity reference series for stock holes, but I'm gonna sit back and watch the other suggestions roll in. (this question always gets mad results):D
     
  3. weird22person

    weird22person Full Member

    What about Infinity Kappas?
     
  4. TheViking

    TheViking Well-Known Member

    He hehehehehe!!!!!!



    I always love this question too Hautewheeler!



    It all comes down to this, ALL speakers are junk and sound like ****, its just a matter of which ones sound less like crap too YOUR EARS!!!!!!


    I personally always liked Orion, Soundstream and a few Oz audio speakers for their smoothness and great midbass performance, but that was over 10 years ago, so I dont know if that would hold true today. Some of the best sounding component sets I have heard in the last 2 years in my opinion are Fusion's ...........
     
  5. CadillacETC1997

    CadillacETC1997 Well-Known Member

    Infinity Perfects
    Image Dynamic
    JL Audio
    Arc Audio

    in that order
     
  6. Ranger SVO

    Ranger SVO Full Member

    We deal with Kappas where I work, don't waste your money. Of all the speakers we carry they have the highest failure rate. The components have some of the cheapest crossovers I've ever seen.

    The Perfect series are little better.

    The best speaker we sell are Polks. Only 2 failures this year. Not Bad.

    In my opinion, dont waste your money on components. They are overpriced and overated. I have never heard any component set that I have been happy with. Buy a good set of coaxials and an add-on tweeter.

    I completely agree with Hautewheeler. In fact that is what I did in my truck, Full range speakers in the door and an add on tweeter, did have to make my own crossover, Polks crossover did not impress me. The speakers are quite good.

    Thats my 50-cents worth
     
  7. kmagyar

    kmagyar Full Member

    Guys, Thanks for the suggestions so far. Can anyone tell me how the JL crossovers stack up? I have been out of the car audio arena for some 5-6 years and tonight I dug out my old system which I am probably going to sell Here is a pic. Am I stupid for thinking the new stuff is better?
    http://users.adelphia.net/~kmagyar/rf/olskool.JPG

    You guys really have me thinking about the coax over components. Anyone else care to disagree?

    Thanks,
    Keith
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2006
  8. TheViking

    TheViking Well-Known Member


    YES! I care to disagree with the coax/tweeter set up. If you are a critical listner and enjoy music to be heard in a proper manner, go with components, NOT a coax and seperate tweeter.


    Reason is, If you have several sources of same frequency sound, eminating from different localities, you will have phasing issues, that means that the highs will sound harsh at some frequncies, and non-existant at others. KISS!!!! keep it simple stupid!!!!!!!! The less the better in this area!
     
  9. kmagyar

    kmagyar Full Member

  10. TheViking

    TheViking Well-Known Member

    I have never listened to the JL audio 3 ways. A bit of info that they do not disclose is the actual freqeuncy of the x-over points, Thats what i am curious about. That would be key in your speaker placement. Especially the distance of placement of the mid and tweet from the woofer.

    In the 3-way components I have done in years past, most sounded OK. A few were a disaster!

    I generally used a 6" woofer, 4" or 5" mid and a 1" soft dome tweet.

    x-over points as follows

    6" woofer...............6dB high pass @ 120Hz up to 500 Hz 12 dB lo pass
    mid........................12 dB high pass @600 up to 3KHz 12 dB lo pass
    tweet......................18dB high pass @ 3KHz



    Heres the real "kicker" though.........after the installation of a 3 way component system, you GET to play with polarities of all of them thar drivers! Also get to play with x-over frequencies too! TO get into that topic would take a LONG description!!!!!!!

    If you are willing to play with speaker placement, x-overs and polarities, then by all means go for it! But then again, you may install them wherever and YOU may LOVE the sound of it without ever experimenting.......I have done many cars that won trophies for there SQ using a 3 way front stage.

    In my experience, 2 way componenets are easier and more forgiving in a lot of ways. So to sum it up, No I dont think that the set you describe would SUCK. Just be prepared to play with them a little to get the sound you want.
     
  11. Hautewheeler

    Hautewheeler Full Member

    also... we have to consider the source of this question.
    Kmagyar asked what 3ways to put in the front of his dodge magnum. The way I understand it, he might not want to hack up his panels and dash or build some glass pods, Hence, he is looking for a "drop in" solution. If a guy wanted to build a "really bad a$$" mid/high section for up front, he probably would have a good idea what he wanted to use, and would have stated the question differently. We, in turn are overcomplicating this for him..

    I say infinity reference or JBL GTO or high end pioneers for a good drop in equivalent, and stick with 2ways to simplify installation (cause the 3ways sound like crows reciting the pledge of allegiance backwards). If more highs are needed at a later date, and kmagyar wants to give it a try, then we can all offer more intense advice at that time...

    am I on the right page here?:huh:
     
  12. Ranger SVO

    Ranger SVO Full Member

    Given the choice above I would pick Reference. Stay away from Kappa. I would also consider Polk Audio Momo.
     
  13. Ranger SVO

    Ranger SVO Full Member

    KISS I love it. The same problem exists when seperates are place too far apart. One sound is at your feet the other at your head. Add-on tweeters should always be near the main source speaker. But in many installations that is not always possible.

    A good installer can easilly solve this problem. Here is how I do it. My 98 Mercury has speakers mounted low in the doors so I added tweeters in some home made fiberglass pods
    [​IMG]
    Next I make sure that the tweeters are pointed toward the front center of the dash, NEVER at me. Finally, I use an odd-order filter. This puts the tweeter either 90 or 270 degrees out of phase. It is no longer directional. The sound in the car is no longer at my feet. It sounds like it is coming from about the center of the dash.

    This method was used a few years ago by Infinity before they got cheap. Infinity Crossovers used to use an even-order filter for thier low end and an odd-order filter on the highs. The effect was one really super sounding speaker. But allas the one extra capacitor required to pull this off just cost too much.

    Dawg that was a whole 50-cents worth
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2006
  14. TheViking

    TheViking Well-Known Member

    Thats some good detailed advice Ranger!


    The only issue that would be a problem is this, all vehicles are different, and what works for your install may not work for another. Thats where experimentation comes into play.


    Playing with different slopes in x-overs is a good way to make or break sound, as you know, phasing comes into serious play and will cause some effects, either good or bad.


    From a regular joe blow not know anything about car audio stand point, its best to keep it simple. Most folks that dont know the details of and science of sound, wont have a chlue, and they might start messing around with x-overs and phasing and such, and only make the sound worse. With that said, it is usually better for an amatuer to stick with simple well defined parameters and go with what is easy to do. In my opinion....:D
     
  15. Ranger SVO

    Ranger SVO Full Member

    While my methods are sound and will work in many (not all) applications, I will agree with you. Keeping it simple works best. And I am an experienced installer. So in the end your right, lets keep it simple.

    But we learn so much when we try something new
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2006
  16. fstrfvo

    fstrfvo Full Member

    I would agree with Viking, The seperates are the way to go. I have done a ton of installs with Oz Audio. they are some of the best sounding speakers out there. Just make sure you install them in a good solid baffle and power them with a good clean 75 to 100 watts. The Bostons are very clean as well, you can crank both sets and they are very reliable. Both companies have very good quality control. I have Oz Audio in both of my cars. Check them out , you wont be sorry.
     
  17. kmagyar

    kmagyar Full Member

    Let me first say thanks for all the responses that this thread has generated so far. I can tell there are a few "well seasoned" installers on this board and I value all of your opinions. I do want a mid/hi end system, not mid to low end. I also do not want to purchase a set drivers that I will not be happy with. I also want to do the install myself. Which brings me to sort of a paradox.
    I started looking at three way systems mainly because of the room that I have in this car for all 3 drivers.I definitly do not want to take away from the stock look as I want "stealth looks". I took a crappy pic with my phone cam just a minute ago for you all to see what I would like to do. The Dodge Magnum has an option for a 6 speaker system with the tweets mounted on the dash. Additionally, there is another model sold (Magnum srt-8) that comes with a Boston Acoustic system that has a 1" tweet mounted on the top of the door such as rangers 98 Merc pic shows ( I dont know what they use in the dash with that option). My system right now is just a 4 speaker system so nothing is in either the dash or the top left of the door. Wouldn't my 4" mids be close enough to the tweets while allowing the woofers to pound on the floor?

    http://home.adelphia.net/~kmagyar/rf/frtlayout.JPG

    My backup plan is either OZ Matrix 2 way, Polk MOMO, or JL XR series 2 way. But in these cases my options would be limited in tweet mounting. That is, I would have to mount the tweeter over the 6.5 or near it which may not be possible in keeping a stock look. I guess to sum things up, the 4" driver (while have to squeeze it in) may "fill" the front nicely. At least that is my thought.

    Thanks,
    Keith
     
  18. TheViking

    TheViking Well-Known Member

    If you do go witht the 3 way design, my suggestion to you from the photo you have shown, is to mount both the twweets and the mids in the same location, which would be the dash in this application, that will minimize phasing issues and also create an "less smeared" soundstage. If you go with the 2 ways, experiment with the tweeter locations, try the dash first and then rty the sails in the doors. When trying each location, listen to some music that is VERY well recorded and detailed in its soundstage that you are very familiar with.
     
  19. kmagyar

    kmagyar Full Member

    Viking, I wanted to do that, but I don't want to make modifications to get them to fit. The manual that comes with that JL set specifys to mount the tweet 3-4" away from the mid. I would love to get that set, but I think I should explore other options. I hope I am not driving you guys nuts with my constantly changing thoughts. Can we go back to what was discussed earlier in this thead, with coax and an additional tweet mounted up top on doorsail. My ideas to simplify are this.

    For doors, a set of separates that allow tweet (aimable) to be mounted on the top of the mid. My choice so far..
    http://www.bostonacoustics.com/car/car_product.aspx?category_id=14&family_id=20

    For dash, 3.5" a set of decent quality 2 ways (such a thing?) such as
    http://www.bostonacoustics.com/car/car_product.aspx?category_id=14&family_id=23&product_id=89
    or good quality tweets.

    Thoughts? I am ready to buy something soon. I am really getting the itch.

    Thanks,
    Keith