My Midbass Plans!!!

Discussion in 'General Car Audio Discussions' started by Feandil, Feb 12, 2004.

  1. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    My entire new high SPL with great SQ install is all figured out. :yes: Except 1 thing :(

    the midbass

    So far this is the plan:
    2 18" RE SXs in 11 cubes ported to 25 hz (with removable port also tuned to 50 hz)
    Orion 2400 powering SXs
    Lanzar Vibe 420 100 watts RMS X 4 @ 4 ohms
    Orion p6.2s covering 350 (or 500 hz) on up

    But what about 500 hz (is 350 or 500 better for midbass?) on down?

    I want to get 2 Vifa PL 10" midbasses. Make ported pods and stick them down by my feet facing me with the orions in the doors. The problem is I can't decide on midbass drivers.

    It basically needs to be 4 ohms so they get good power from my Lanzar. I'm looking at a Peerless XLS sub that plays flatly up to 500 hz.

    What's the question right?
    Which would do better here.... the Peerless 10" has 12.5 mm one-way of Xmax and the PL has 4 mm one-way. The difference is that the PL would get it's RMS rating (100 watts) while the XLS would get 1/3 it's RMS rating (300 watts). Which would be best for dedicated midbass for the 60-500 hz (maybe 350) range? Also the PLs require smaller boxes.

    Sorry for the long ass post btw ;)
     
  2. BlkX

    BlkX Full Member

    Why are you set on using a 10" sub for midbass? If you're stuck on using a 10", you're best bet would be to take your regular component set and play them down to 100hz maybe. Then bandpass the 10's from 100 to 50 or so, then let your 18's take over from there.

    I haven't seen any 10" speakers that will play very well past 200hz. If you need them to play higher i'd drop down to an 8".
     
  3. Electrodynamic

    Electrodynamic Full Member

    The Vifa 10's actually do quite well up to 1k Hz. However, putting 10's at your feet? Do you have a mid-80's model Cadilac or big muscle car that you're going to cut into the floor in order to fit the drivers? If not, I strongly recommend that you use an 8" driver. I know it's 'only' 2" difference, but it's a BIG difference when you actually get them in your car.

    I would also not go above 350 Hz for your midbass drivers. ...more like 250, but out of the options you gave us, definately 350 Hz.
     
  4. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    thanks

    I can fit them actually in the pods I wanna make... they are 4.25" deep. And yes the PLs play flatly on-axis to 2 khz

    The reason I want 10s is for the output they give. I've always been told that cone size is the most important for output in the higher frequencies.

    I could do 8 s very easily. I want SHEAR un-distorted output up the asshole. Like SUPER loud up to like 1 khz. I've been told to have 6" ers for midranges for loudness. I love the idea of 10s.... but if I can come up with 8s that would give the output of 10s then I'll go with them.

    I want the 8s/10s to be very involved so I was thinking 500 hz. I just want LOUD ass components to keep up with the 18s...

    Thanks again
     
  5. fugyaself

    fugyaself Full Member

    I cant really imagine having the room for 10s but if you can find something then go for it.

    The Kodas are supposed to be mean midbasses if you want to cut back on space.
     
  6. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    Hmm... yeah I've heard this also

    The DD mids are supposed to be killer loud too. But cone area is more important in High Frequencies. I can fit 10s... I swear :p

    But can any 6" or 8" really beat a 10" in shear output in high frequencies where excursion is limited?
     
  7. Electrodynamic

    Electrodynamic Full Member

    Yes. Two words: Pro Audio. Finding a nice high-efficiency midrange will absolutely murder a 'typical' home audio midrange in sheer output.
     
  8. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    Hmmm...

    is there any mids that you would recommend? I can't afford JBL's pro audio bitches.
     
  9. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    output-wise are Adire's AV8 comparable it a 10" vifa PL?

    It seems like the AV8's a beast :yes:
     
  10. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    Should be close. I will actually have a pair of these units soon as I am building some HT cabinets. Output levels at over 105 Db throughout the spectrum anechoic. Should pound pretty good.
     
  11. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    Sweet I guess I'll just go with 2 of those then :p

    per side :D

    I'm crazy <_<
     
  12. Electrodynamic

    Electrodynamic Full Member

    Audax PR170MO 6" woofer with 100 dB efficiency, PHL 1660 6" 97 dB, PHL 2521 8" 100 dB, anything Focal high-efficiency, etc.
     
  13. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    Sweet
    so like 97 db on up is good?

    that audax doesn't go low enough but I know what to look for now. Thanks!
     
  14. deyton

    deyton Full Member

    The old iron law... to get efficiency you gotta sacrifice box size and/or low end extention.
     
  15. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    The old iron law... to get efficiency you gotta sacrifice box size and/or low end extention. [/b][/quote]
    yea I know.

    I've been trying to find a sensitive 8" that goes low and they just aren't out there. Especially in 4 ohm. I figured someone would be willing to sacrifice box size (I don't mind)

    So I decided on the PHL 1330 http://www.phlaudio.com/main.html

    it's got a 94 db effeciency. It's a 6.5" mid that goes down to 50 hz. I wanna get 4. 2 per pod per side. so I can get a final 4 ohm load per side so that's 50 watts per speaker (speaker's RMS is 100 each)
    Planing on porting around 40 hz in .5 cubes for the 2 in each pod (2 mids per pod).

    Will this give a really strong midbass presence?

    Or will a single AV8 perform better? I'm guessing the 1330s will out perform the AV8 in every way, but I could be wrong.
     
  16. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    I like the AV8. The pair of 1330s ported will be louder than a sealed AV8, but I see a few things right off the bat.

    Sd and Xmax comparisons of the 2: AV8 231Cm and the 1330 is 143 Cm and Xmax of 5.6 for the AV8 and 3.5 for the 1330. so you see, the displacement differance between the 2 is nominal (but actually favoring the AV8). However, there is more surface area for the pair of 1330 than for a single AV8. Is it enough to be audible? Too close to tell really, but I'd say barely.

    The AV8 should have considerably better extension sealed or ported. As high as the FS is on the 1330s I would NEVER port them that low. An FS of 57 and a port tune of 40 will create some serious breakup modes. Now look at the AV8, what is it, 35Hz. Hmmm.

    Better SQ, lower extention, similar output all lead me to go with the AV8s
     
  17. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    hmmm....

    I didn't notice the Fs of 53 :(

    AV8 sounds more practical that trying to find super high efficenct drivers. 2 ported AV8s tuned to 50 per side?

    Sound good?

    Thanks Seth
     
  18. Feandil

    Feandil Full Member

    Or will 1 AV8 be enough ported? It'll only get 50 watts though....
     
  19. Electrodynamic

    Electrodynamic Full Member

    Whatever you end up deciding on, I want to see pictures of your install. I still can't get over you using twin 8's / twin 6.5's / a single 10 for midbass...in your kicks.
     
  20. sandt38

    sandt38 Full Member

    Build the enclosure to suit. I have a hard time believing you will need more than 1 per side sealed or IB personally. I'd personally try to keep it in check with your midrange and tweets by sealing it up. Plus you will keep it nice and tight by sealing or IB.