Need comments on my system

[peter_euro]

I am getting close to redoing the stereo in my 1990 Porsche 944 Cabrio (very tough car to set up a good system). This is what I have right now (because I did not alter the interior yet...).

Blaupunkt San Francisco (really sucks because it does not have a removable face and it is in a convertible)

Blaupunkt in dash 5 CD changer

JL 300/4 and Concept CC-D2400

Lanzar MWS65 (6.5 mids) and Diamond Audio alum tweeters up front and Clarion Pro Audio 4x6 plates in the rear

subs are 2 Audiomobile Mass 2012 in sealed box in the trunk in 1 Ohm.

I am very unhappy with the sound so I came up with a little upgrade:

replacement HU is Premier P920R with PD6 in dash 6CD changer

2 JL 300/4
keeping Concept CC-D2400 and adding Concept CC752 (2x75w)

Front door panels are getting custom fiberglass enclosures to house Lanzar MWS6.5 6.5 midbass, Lanzar DC4.4 midranges and Diamond Audio alum tweeters.

The rear sail panels are being replaced by custom fabricated panels with built in enclosures and will house Lanzar DC6.4 midbass and Lanzar 4.4 midranges.

I will feed the 0 gauge from the battery (with 140amp circuit breaker) to the trunk and then using gauge 4 from the distribution block to the amps. Using 0 gauge ground to distribution block and to the amps.

The signal from the deck will go directly to the D2400 (sub output) and to the MASS subs (they are in fiberglass spare tire enclosure and they stay).

The main 4 channels will go to 2 Audiocontrol EQX and process the signal for the front 3 way setup and 2 way (midbass and midrange only) and all drivers will get power from separate amp channels (6 JL amps channels for the front and 2 JL and 2 Concept for the rear).

Crossovers will be a combination of Audio Control crossovers and deck and amp crossovers.

Any comments on my design? Am I making any mistakes? What should I consider changing?

[BlkX]

Those changes sound great, but what specifically about the sound did you not like???

[peter_euro]

Originally posted by BlkX@Dec 10 2002, 11:15 PM
Those changes sound great, but what specifically about the sound did you not like???

Very little if any mid and upper bass, poor imaging, sub bass clearly heard from the rear.

[Alan]

your sub bass is most definitely going to be heard from the rear, in such a small vehicle..... thats the downside of having that type of car....... I'm not sure what you can do to alleviate this, besides getting some slightly weaker subs.....
I really don't know how much space you really have in there, but as far as imaging, get a good strong set of 6.5's and build your own kickpods for them. Obviously your Bass is too much right now, so tone it down a bit! And if you still don't have enough midbass after that, some people even runa single 8" to fill the midbass gaps left by a slightly weak comp set.

[peter_euro]

Originally posted by Alan@Dec 11 2002, 06:24 PM
your sub bass is most definitely going to be heard from the rear, in such a small vehicle..... thats the downside of having that type of car....... I'm not sure what you can do to alleviate this, besides getting some slightly weaker subs.....
I really don't know how much space you really have in there, but as far as imaging, get a good strong set of 6.5's and build your own kickpods for them. Obviously your Bass is too much right now, so tone it down a bit! And if you still don't have enough midbass after that, some people even runa single 8" to fill the midbass gaps left by a slightly weak comp set.

K... no usable kickpanels to speak of... The doors and the rear panels are the only game... I actually had the rears out for quite a while because I blew one of the drivers, LOL... and it felt kinda weird with all music straight ahead...

With the subs it is a really screwy deal too... if they are turned down, the exhaust drawns them completely.... so it is either too much bass or the exhaust sound... (real weird how the exhaust can completely cancel out the bass... )

I tried before with just one 12 and it sounded really like crap.. With the 2 MASS, I can actually forget I have the exhaust.. I figured that instead of turning everything down, I would do the opposite instead... However, the sub lows got loud, the upper midrange got loud, the lower highs got loud... but... the mid and upper bass went bye bye and so did the lower midrange and the highest highs... I would like to put 8s in the doors but I doubt there is room... I figured that with proper enclosures and properly fed and crossed over, the MWS would really pound...

Are you suggesting that the rear should conist strictly of 8s? what about 6.5 and 8s? Maybe it would be ok to put the 6.5 and 4s in the rear and then low pass rear very low and see if they can be faded out just enough to provide a little ambiance and nothing else? Won't the 6.5 give enough midbass?

BTW, the interior is very very small...

[BlkX]

Honestly to me, it sounds like you might benefit from a new component set. Some midbass drivers just aren't that strong. I've not personally had any experience with the Lanzars though. However, i have heard a couple sets of the Diamond tweeters and was not all that impressed. They could be a part of your imaging problems. I'd say if you get a new component set, and put them in a set of kickpanels, you'll be set.

When i had a set of the Diamond M5 components, my midbass was very weak which allowed me to hear most all of the sub-bass. Now with my Rainbows, most of the actual sound of the bass is produced by the mids, and the sub just outlines the music.

[Alan]

Originally posted by peter_euro+Dec 11 2002, 01:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peter_euro @ Dec 11 2002, 01:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Alan@Dec 11 2002, 06:24 PM
your sub bass is most definitely going to be heard from the rear, in such a small vehicle..... thats the downside of having that type of car....... I'm not sure what you can do to alleviate this, besides getting some slightly weaker subs.....
I really don't know how much space you really have in there, but as far as imaging, get a good strong set of 6.5's and build your own kickpods for them. Obviously your Bass is too much right now, so tone it down a bit! And if you still don't have enough midbass after that, some people even runa single 8" to fill the midbass gaps left by a slightly weak comp set.

K... no usable kickpanels to speak of... The doors and the rear panels are the only game... I actually had the rears out for quite a while because I blew one of the drivers, LOL... and it felt kinda weird with all music straight ahead...

With the subs it is a really screwy deal too... if they are turned down, the exhaust drawns them completely.... so it is either too much bass or the exhaust sound... (real weird how the exhaust can completely cancel out the bass... )

I tried before with just one 12 and it sounded really like crap.. With the 2 MASS, I can actually forget I have the exhaust.. I figured that instead of turning everything down, I would do the opposite instead... However, the sub lows got loud, the upper midrange got loud, the lower highs got loud... but... the mid and upper bass went bye bye and so did the lower midrange and the highest highs... I would like to put 8s in the doors but I doubt there is room... I figured that with proper enclosures and properly fed and crossed over, the MWS would really pound...

Are you suggesting that the rear should conist strictly of 8s? what about 6.5 and 8s? Maybe it would be ok to put the 6.5 and 4s in the rear and then low pass rear very low and see if they can be faded out just enough to provide a little ambiance and nothing else? Won't the 6.5 give enough midbass?

BTW, the interior is very very small...[/b][/quote]
I'm thinking you don't know what im talking about by kickpods....... ya know, the kind you build yourself out of fiberglass that sit on the floor..... there's a multitude of tutorials out there to show you what you need to do.....
as far as the exhaust sound overpowering the bass........ Ever heard of a muffler? :roll:
I'm saying you get whatever subs you can fit in that car for your bass..... probably 10's.....
get at least one dedicated midbass driver..... there are some good 6.5" ones out there......
and get yourself a set of good components that you can put in your own fabricated kickpods.
I do think bob is right though.... it sounds to me like you need your bass up to mask the sound of the muffler, and then the bass overpowers your frontstage......
have you thought about sound deadener at all? It will probably help tons....

[peter_euro]

[quote]Originally posted by Alan@Dec 12 2002, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Alan,Dec 11 2002, 06:24 PM

I'm thinking you don't know what im talking about by kickpods....... ya know, the kind you build yourself out of fiberglass that sit on the floor..... there's a multitude of tutorials out there to show you what you need to do.....
as far as the exhaust sound overpowering the bass........ Ever heard of a muffler? :roll:
I'm saying you get whatever subs you can fit in that car for your bass..... probably 10's.....
get at least one dedicated midbass driver..... there are some good 6.5" ones out there......
and get yourself a set of good components that you can put in your own fabricated kickpods.
I do think bob is right though.... it sounds to me like you need your bass up to mask the sound of the muffler, and then the bass overpowers your frontstage......
have you thought about sound deadener at all? It will probably help tons....

K, I must be real dumb because I have no clue about kickpods... I can barely squeeze my legs in the front as it is... if I put anything else on the floor, I would not be able to drive the car (manual transmission)... I am on the third exhaust system right now (ended up adding a resonator to quiet down the sound but the lowest drone is still there...). The car is full of dynamat and I will be doubling on the floor soon too... It is a convertible and there is no way to insulate the top, LOL... The plastic rear window pretty much takes care of the insulation... Right now my sub set up consists of 2 MASS 2012 S24 in sealed fiberglass spare wheel enclosure and Concept CC-D2400... I think I have squeezed as much as I possibly could in that little trunk of my car...

[BlkX]

A set of Adire Kodas might be in order??? Seth...enlighten us. I know you probably have yours by now....

[geolemon]

Sounds to me like it's a few things conspiring on you...

First off, it's a convertible.. deal with the fact that there's lots of conflict between having a good stereo and an open top. Even with the top up, often the noise floor is high.

You should definitely look into stripping your interior and really Dynamatting the rear hatch area, particularly the firewall area, the fenders... try to stop that exhaust noise from coming in.

You need to improve your midbass drivers, up front.
It sounds to me like they don't deliver well enough right now, since it sounds like all the bass comes from the rear.
Besides trying to get clever fitting bigger/more midbass drivers up front, you might expend some cleverness figuring out how to enclose the midbass drivers... Or maybe just figuring out how to make the door itself a better baffle.. seal off all the little holes, more Dynamat abuse, etc..
Might take a midbass upgrade though, don't know what you have.

Finally, playing with your Xover settings..
I'd try lowering your front stage Xover points if you can, maybe down to 80Hz-100Hz or so if you can get away with it... if you can't, maybe some new midbasses are in order... or address the enclosurement idea again!

I'm assuming your sub system is doing you just fine...
But maybe it's playing too high, if it's ruining your "bass up front" illusion.
I'd try lowering the subwoofer Xover also - and don't worry about creating a gap between the subwoofer and the mid... the way that the two Xover slopes combine, you'd be surprised how precious little attenuation you end up with when you do stagger them, even significantly.

And Alan, a small car isn't as bad as a big car or SUV for creating that "bass up front" illusion... that's a long and often acoustically-challenged distance for the sound to travel in a larger car...