A series piston strength issues

[sandt38]

Ok, now before I turn into the unlucky few who cracked thier cone, where should I pick the sub up from? Magnet?

Now I need to wire it for 1 Ohm. I saw the diagram, but still a little confused. Can someone give me small step by step instructions.

I just want to make sure everything is perfect, I waited so long for it... Better safe than sorry.

15a Cracked Cone !
I just received my 15a today and completed the install in the 1.5 ft3 box that is posted on the web site. I was replacing 2 JL 10w6's each in a 1.65 ft3 ported box tuned to 32Hz. After installing the 15a I was tuning the cross over point (sounded best crossed @63Hz w/24db slope) and adjusting the Sub level when I began to here some distortion I went back to check the Sub and there was a white line across the Nomex cone. It was Cracked !! I hope this isn't a common problem with the flat cones. I haden't even cranked it up yet. I have emailed Ed for a Ra # hopefully they will repair or replace it quickly. This is very disappointing after waiting since March and to have it play for less than an hour.

u know u cant pick the woofer up by appliying any kind of force to the back of that cone right.....paper cones rip...alum cones dent...nomex cones break...rubber tires go flat...life is never perfect

Funny, looks like the crack goes right to the coil joint. I suggested this was a concern of mine when everyone started ragging on how great the 15A would be. Seriously I saw no reason to worry about the 12 as the 12inch piston has been used sucessfully. But 15s have been subject to certain issues. The flat piston has more of an issue with buckleing and breakage, as the force is exerted across the entire flat surface of the piston. A cone exerts the force at it's apex, rather than across a broad flat piece. When any material is stiffened to reduce flex, it becomes more brittle. But someone said I had no idea about design or subwoofers in general. The same someone told me my concerns had no merit or basis in fact. Chris and I discussed this on the phone and he expressed agreement with my concerns.

looks like big problems with problems with these cones,eather customer or cone defect. i have never heard of soo many complants. Ben u must have a HUGE headach...SPLaudio

The driver was received in good condition. Ed has good packaging and it seems to have been handled with reasonable care. Nothing ever touched the cone while playing. I was very careful handling while unpacking and installing. After all I had been waiting in anticipation since March

Here is the thread which I am sure will get deleted soon.

Look, a tutorial for gripping a subwoofer

Sorry, I just needed to post that. Apparently it is a fairly common problem.

[sandt38]

Oh yeah, seeing how the split is spreading at the surround, I might suggest it didn't start there, but it did end there.

[The_Ancient]

I agree with your conlustions, but I will me main nuetrul in this or I will have to bring up Destji issues that will not be favorable to adire.....


p.s. why did you now comment in on me new store seth

[sandt38]

Originally posted by Michael@Jun 30 2003, 10:26 PM
I agree with your conlustions, but I will me main nuetrul in this or I will have to bring up Destji issues that will not be favorable to adire.....


p.s. why did you now comment in on me new store seth

Nah, it is not a buildhouse issue, it was a piston strength issue. Neither woofer (the B or A) has serious return rates, it is just a strenght issue.

Sorry Mike, I didn't really look there yet. It is late though, and I will be sure to look at it tomorrow. Drop me a PM so I am reminded and don't forget. I'd be glad to browse and tell you what I think bud. Old age is ****ing hell man

[BlkX]

Yea, Courtney and I discussed some of the problems that could occur with the 15A and the cone and piston etc. etc. etc. I agreed with most of what was said. Sure enough, there were a bunch of 15a's coming back with cracked cones. Apparently Ben was somewhat concerned with this too and decided to do some testing... here's the thread where he describes it: http://forum.soundillusions.net/showthread...?threadid=25364

and here's a thread with videos of the excursion along with more commentary http://forum.soundillusions.net/showthread...?threadid=25367

Basically what he said was he beat the **** out of the sub and couldn't break it no matter what. Now, I realize that being the president of the company, he'll do whatever he can to shed some light on the dark possibility of his 15a's being defective, but he did claim the 15a held up to some pretty rigorous testing.

[luvdeftonz]

I can see where you're coming from, Seth, but I don't think that dude's sub is a representative sample of all the new flat piston subs. IMO, that crack is a user error (see my reasoning on CAF thread...I only posted once...so far :P). I have taken pictures of exactly how ED packs the 15A (I'll post them when I write a little review on the 15A), and it's very reasonble to assume the user picked it up from the underside of the cone. The way it's shipped, you can only remove the sub one of two ways. Grab around the lip/flange or flip the box upside down, so the woofs cone is facing down, and lift the box up. That user may have tried to grap under the flange, his hands slipped in and up through the cone. It is a 35 lb. woof! And it is VERY possible. I'm not taking sides either way. It's way too early to form an opinion one way or another. But if I was a bettin' man...user error. Read half of the "so and so broke" threads over on CAF or SIn. Half the time it's the user trying to do something he has no idea about.

It's possible that it's a manufacturing defect. I have doubt it's a design defect as the designer, Stephen Ponte, has seen, used, tested, or handled damn near every sub manufactured in the past 4-5 years. I'm sure he took everything into account when considering this unconventional design. As I posted over on CAF, I've beaten the
**** out of this sub with very heavy, very deep bass music. It's still goin' strong. Time will tell, I guess.

Oh, as with Adire, never criticize ED on CAF. They're very terratorial...of course, half the people that are terratorial have never seen, used, installed, or heard the product they're so "terratorial" about. Oh well, if you point out a flaw/potential flaw (you don't even have to say it has a flaw, just that it might have one...remember the W7?), expect ad hominem attacks like a mofo.

I will not say anything bad about you or your wife because I don't know either of you. But, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, your wife is freakin' hot! Cute little thing

[sandt38]

Originally posted by luvdeftonz@Jul 1 2003, 03:09 AM
I can see where you're coming from, Seth, but I don't think that dude's sub is a representative sample of all the new flat piston subs. IMO, that crack is a user error (see my reasoning on CAF thread...I only posted once...so far :P

Oh, as with Adire, never criticize ED on CAF. They're very terratorial

If you look there are a couple issues of the same thing. Also, someone posted on CAF about a nysterious shape forming on the cone of their 15A as well. We shall see down the road.

Oh, I know I have been at CAF long enough, trust me. I know the ropes, but I stand my ground.

[flawlesskid]

I'm just waiting to see how many more come back cracked. I'm sure it could be user error, but im thinking this may become an issue. Lets just see. Those ED forum guys will jump all over anybody who says they have a problem with an ED sub. My bent K got a few guys telling me i dropped it, or ups dropped it, and no chance that it could be defective. Bent cast alluminum from dropping it? No, it'll break. See what im getting at?

[sandt38]

Originally posted by flawlesskid@Jul 8 2003, 11:22 PM
I'm just waiting to see how many more come back cracked. I'm sure it could be user error, but im thinking this may become an issue. Lets just see. Those ED forum guys will jump all over anybody who says they have a problem with an ED sub. My bent K got a few guys telling me i dropped it, or ups dropped it, and no chance that it could be defective. Bent cast alluminum from dropping it? No, it'll break. See what im getting at?

Agreed.

Bottom line is, I am not saying that all the piston As will have this problem. I just stated that the 15s had me a bit iffy due to other 15 piston sub issues. I do know enough about the guys at ED to say I am sure the sub is fantastic. I don't want to sound like I am bashing the A series or the 15A drivers, I just stated a concern that I felt was genuine. My feeling was quickly displayed withing 2 hours use!!! I just found it amusing to say the least.

[luvdeftonz]

CAF has become disturbingly barbaric, rude, obnoxious, territorial, and at times, oblivious to the fact that people have opinions that may differ from their own. I didn't have any problems with you bringing up concerns about the potential for problems with the new flat cones. PPI did fail miserably with their attempt. Just because ED is one of the "flavors of the month" on CAF and other boards, doesn't mean they automatically solved all the problems. I have confidence they did, but that confidence is bourne out of my respect for Stephen Ponte. I was hoping, if nothing else, that everyone involved in the design of the driver would chime in on why it will not fail, what they did to ensure it will not fail, and why previous flat piston designs did fail. Your thread actually could have been educational to all those who read it. Instead, it became a flame fest with idiots pulling their dicks out to see who has the biggest. Unfortunately, most were acting like little 4 year olds, and we know how big ours was at 4 years old...

I've had the 15A for close to 2 weeks now (I know, still early) in a med. sealed box with close to 1500 wrms and it's still hummin' along beautifully. Time, as they say, will tell.

Anyways, I find myself going to Carsound to try and find technical questions/threads more and more (hey, Dan W is there quite often...you always learn when he has something to say ) Heck, I even saw spacemonkey and you over there...I hope CAF can return to it's former glory (you know, like it was even 6 months ago).